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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: Podlings, the Incubator, relationships and Apache
Date Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:30:53 GMT

> On Jun 27, 2019, at 7:57 PM, Justin Mclean <> wrote:
> Hi,
>> The Incubator itself is a PMC.
> OK that's sorted.
>> Now let's talk about podling releases... When the IPMC votes on accepting a podling
release, and it passes, my opinion is that the Incubator takes on the resultant legal obligations
associated w/ any PMC doing a release. Now the podling releases themselves are noted and described
as "not GA" and "not official", but this is, again IMO, simply to make it clear to
anyone who is downloading and using the software that the expectations normally associated
with "regular" Apache releases do not apply, such that there could be some licensing issues,
etc, that would be verboten in "official" releases, but may exist here. In other words: this
is a podling release; expect issues and mistakes and churn.
> Except it's not, as it seems the IPMC doesn’t need to abide by what other PMCs need
to abide by when making releases :-) (Which is ironic given the IPMC is tasked with teaching
and passing that knowledge on.) And that policy exception is not documented anywhere. :-)
Nor has the board, to my knowledge, approved such an exception. Yay! So how is a voted on
PMC release, an act which make it official, is not an official release? Do you see how this
might be confusing or open to a board range of interpretations?

Yes, I see how it can be confusing and open to a range of opinions.

Recall that with other PMCs, the PMCs themselves are directly responsible for the development
of the code. Not so with the IPMC. The expectation w/ other PMCs is that they know how to
do releases, and that their releases will be correct and valid. With podlings, the expectation
is the reverse. It is expected that podling releases will have issues... in fact, iirc, somewhere
along the line *making* a podling do a release was added as a required step to graduation,
to make sure that upon graduation, they knew how to do it.

Incubation should be a... wait for it... 'safe space' (/me ducks) for podlings to learn the
ropes, to fail doing the "normal" things that a PMC must do (including releases), because
that is how people learn best. As long as the outworld world is aware that podlings can not,
and should not, be expected to be "the same" as other PMCs, we are OK.

Maybe we should think of the podlings more as "Apprenticeship PMCs" ;)

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