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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: [IMPORTANT] Board proposal on podling releases
Date Mon, 10 Jun 2019 12:34:31 GMT
Agreed... isn't the whole point of the Incubator is to provide not only training and guidance
but also a "safe place" where these codlings can learn the ropes, including How To Do A Release?
And don't we stress that such podlings are under incubation is to ensure (as much as we can)
that those who download and/or use the project are aware that there might be 'issues' with
that codebase and that they may not 100% comply with the standards associated w/ 'real' ASF

Unless there is an actual *LEGAL* issue w/ assets within the released codebase, such that
we do not have the rights to release said assets, I'm not sure what the hub-bub is. These
are podling releases.

PS: and '*LEGAL*' is not GPL code or whatever

> On Jun 7, 2019, at 2:47 PM, Greg Stein <> wrote:
> blah blah "legal risk" blah blah.
> Really. Let's step back and consider what we're talking about. A podling
> making a release as they learn the ropes of Apache-style governance. With a
> disclaimer.
> "OMG! There is GPL code in there!" ... no legal risk. We only care about
> GPL from a policy standpoint. Let it through.
> "OMG! No NOTICE file!" ... well, easy to fix, unlike a GPL dependency.
> Maybe stop the release, but there isn't any "legal risk" so maybe just
> write a Jira ticket and move on. Copyrights, IP, and licensing are not
> magically thrown out the window if a file is not present. All of that is
> inherent, and a NOTICE file merely helps to surface IP issues, rather than
> specify.
> And just what is this "legal risk" term that people are throwing about?
> Please define, before use.
> -g
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:00 PM Craig Russell <> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> As a board member, I'm not comfortable with granting a blanket exception
>> to policy that might put us at legal risk.
>> As an IPMC member, I think that we do not want to allow podlings to
>> release material that might put us at legal risk. I do think that the IPMC
>> under today's policy has the ability to decide whether a podling release
>> puts us at risk and therefore should be blocked. So I am not convinced that
>> the IPMC needs to ask for this waiver from the board.
>> My understanding as an IPMC member is that there are some items in a
>> release that can be  allowed where they would not be in a TLP release.
>> These things have historically drawn -1 votes from IPMC members.
>> I think there is consensus that a podling release does not have to conform
>> in every respect to what we expect from a TLP release.
>> I think that the incubator IPMC should first flesh out (on the general@
>> list) which materials in a podling release are
>> a) fine;
>> b) minor issue (file a JIRA and fix before graduation); or
>> c) blocker (puts the foundation at risk).
>> The detail of what is minor versus what it a blocker is the most important
>> thing that needs clarity. As of now, I don't see consensus although I see
>> movement.
>> Craig
>>> On Jun 6, 2019, at 11:45 PM, Justin Mclean <>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> As suggested I’ve collated information from several threads and turned
>> it into a proposal for the board. Any edits, feedback, agreement,
>> disagreement etc etc is welcome. In particular it would be nice  to hear
>> some feedback from people who are in favour of this.
>>> Note that this is important as it probably changes the advice mentors
>> will give their podlings on releases and change in a positive way how we
>> vote on releases with serious issues in them. If you are a mentor or vote
>> on releases please read it. Again feedback welcome.
>>> If the board agrees with the proposal I think we'll need to update the
>> incubator DISCLAIMER. I’ve suggested what we might add in the proposal but
>> the exact changes can to be discussed here. If the board disagrees with the
>> proposal I suggest we discuss and come up with a list of serious issues
>> that the IPMC recommends voting -1 vote on a release. This is just
>> guidance, not rules, and there may of course be exceptions. (For instance
>> you could ask VP legal for an exception as has been done in the past.)
>> That way mentors and podlings have clear expectations on releases must
>> contain.
>>> The proposal can be found in the draft board report. [1]
>>> Thanks,
>>> Justin
>>> 1.
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