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From Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] introduce "[DISCUSS]" threads for podling non-ASF release candidates
Date Tue, 26 Feb 2019 21:30:17 GMT
The IPMC could consider some changes to the Incubator rules. (As proposed mostly by Roy on
private lists.)

Allow the VOTE thread to be only on the dev@ list with 0 or 1 mentor vote required. As long
as the DISCLAIMER exists then the pooling release is good.

Once completed the podling sends the vote thread to general@ with [REVIEW] (or [DISCUSS]).
This allows the IPMC to review and comment on how close the release is to being a fully proper
Apache Release. The podling can more easily take smaller increments while continuing development
as they did before Incubation as well as how they will do it once they graduate.

Graduation requirements don’t change.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Dave

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Julian Hyde <jhyde@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> This change would be useful.
> 
> As a release manager of a podling, the most disheartening thing is latency. The usual
practice is a 72 hour PPMC release vote, followed by a 72 hour IPMC vote, one of which will
cross a weekend, so a negative vote on the last day of the IPMC vote adds at least a week
to the process. A negative vote (or comment) on day 1 or 2 of the PPMC vote is much less disruptive.
> 
> I encourage reviewers to review a release candidate, and vote, as early as possible in
the 72 hour voting period. I also encourage them to review and vote even if there have been
-1 votes, because they might find other issues that the previous reviewer(s) missed. Because
these practices speed the process along, and even if the first RC fails, get to a good second
RC as soon as possible.
> 
> Myrle’s proposal to use a [DISCUSS] thread encourages these practices: people won’t
be as tempted to wait for 71 hours before chiming in, and people will tend to continue to
review even after they have seen some negative reviews.
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2019, at 11:50 PM, Myrle Krantz <myrle@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Motivation:
>> 
>> Some podlings want or need feedback on their releases before they are ready
>> to make official Apache releases.  They want to discuss releases that are
>> not yet ready for a VOTE, or that they are not sure they are ready for a
>> vote.  They may wish to make an early release outside of the foundation,
>> but still test the ASF waters.  They prefer to "fail early, fail often and
>> fail forward". [1]
>> 
>> 
>> Proposal:
>> 
>> Podlings should be able to request feedback by starting a "[DISCUSS]"
>> thread instead of a "[VOTE]" thread.  Discussion should give podlings
>> feedback on what they would need to do to bring their release in line with
>> the requirements for graduation to TLP.  Podlings will be responsible for
>> capturing feedback that they accept in work items for their project.
>> Feedback provided in a discussion thread will not block a non-ASF release.
>> 
>> Asking for feedback using this mechanism is not obligatory, but rather a
>> service that the incubator offers.
>> 
>> 
>> Arguments for this proposal:
>> 
>> * It's a very small change which may make it easier to implement than some
>> of the "throw it all away and start over" proposals circulating, but...
>> * It doesn't prevent us from making other larger changes.
>> * It's not a rule.  It's an offering of an additional service + an
>> incremental reduction in stringency of the incubator.
>> * It captures some of the value in what we are doing now while increasing
>> the degrees of freedom provided to podlings.
>> * It is consistent with our values of transparency, collaboration,
>> community, pragmatism, meritocracy, and charity.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Myrle
>> 
>> 1.)
>> https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/614412-failing-forward-turning-mistakes-into-stepping-stones-for-success
> 
> 
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