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From Justin Mclean <>
Subject Re: Incubator Workshop
Date Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:04:08 GMT

> Would such a course seek to teach the principles or the rules?

It’s currently an hour long, and while I do/would explain why some things are done that
way, it’s not a deep dive into the underlying principles as I don’t think there enough
time to do that. I think it’s easier to know policy and then understand why it that way
and how the preinicaples apply, rather than the other way about, but I could be mistaken.

You're welcome to review it and give feedback on it which I’ll take into consideration and
apply. I use the Apache Wombat material I made some time ago, a real release of an incubating
project Pony Mail, and review a real (unnamed) TLP project LICENSE and NOTICE file and give
some simple scenarios/candidates for committership and have an open discussion of if people
should be committers. They are no correct answers to if the release should be released (but
it probably should be), the LICENSE and NOTICE are OK (they have a few issues), or if the
committers should be voted in ( it would depend on the PMC in question), that is all up to
the participants.

> I ask because your original proposal says " making and voting on releases and voting
on committers into the projects". There are no ***rules*** about having to vote. There are
principles about how to build and recognize consensus. But, despite what much of the incubator
documentation says, there are no formal rules about it.

If you look at the incubator policy [1] you’ll note it uses MUST and SHALL quite carefully
(as per [2]), no where does it say releases MUST be voted on so yes I’m aware a formal vote
is not required. However I’m only aware of one TLP project that doesn’t vote on committers/releases
in the way that most projects do (Apache SVN) and vaguely remember them making major changes
on how releases were made at some point after one didn’t go so well. The exact detail of
those differences I’m unaware of. I can’t recall a single incubator project in the last
5 years that hasn’t voted on releases. Anyone know of other examples where projects don’t
vote on releases or committers? Is so please share them.

> I'm 100% for teaching people the principles of consensus building around releases and
honoring people with committership. Even better if such a course gave concrete examples of
how different communities apply those principles in different ways.

If anyone (including you) can give me examples then I’ll certainly use them. The projects
I’m involved in (or have been involved in) are certainly quite different to each other but
I can't think of any major ways (with the exception of the Incubator) that they apply the
principles in different ways. Some have set different bars for committership and some more
welcoming than others but that’s not really a big difference in that regard.

> However, I'm 100% against an opinionated piece that gives the impression that there is
only one way to do things here in Apache. We already have way too much of that in Incubator

Patches are welcome.


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