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From Hen <bay...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Committer/PPMC votes
Date Fri, 22 Jun 2018 01:54:26 GMT
Interesting.

Foundation-wise, all our votes are Majority Voting (new member vote, board
vote (ish), votes by the board themselves, omnibus voting). There's little
expectation/requirement of consensus.

Jakarta/Commons wise new committer votes felt that way (Majority); however
both of those were large PMCs. Disagreement was more likely than on a
smaller PMC so the reality was that we needed Majority instead of
Consensus. The mantra was always "votes on code (technical) had veto,
everything else was majority". But it was also, to your point, a strong
culture to avoid relying on majority-overrule of a veto. Thus new release
votes always felt like Consensus voting even if the rule says Majority
voting.

I think the release voting (
https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#ReleaseVotes ) is similar to
new committer votes. It's Majority Voting, but the Release Manager does
hold a veto. I'd expect a PMC Chair to have a similar role in a new
committer vote. "As Chair I consider the -1 from Alice to be a blocking
veto; we need to discuss more". That doesn't work with Podlings though as
there's no (local) buck-stops-here chair.

It feels like there's an inconsistency between
https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html and
https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html . Either we update
newcommitter.html to explain that it's a Majority vote, but explain how
unusual it should be to see -1 after discussion; or voting.html needs
updating to explain that most (or all?) projects use Consensus voting to
add committers (and presumably PMC members too).

On most projects using consensus voting for committers/pmc; it feels that
it's hard to tell the difference. If there are no -1s, a consensus and
majority vote look the same. :)

Hen




On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Justin Mclean <justin@classsoftware.com>
wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Way back when each project having a set of bylaws/guidelines was
> fashionable I looked through them and there is some variation but a -1 on a
> committer or PMC member is generally treated as a veto. That being said any
> objections should really come up in the discussion stage (and hopefully
> mitigated) before a vote is called so a -1 vote should be rare. If you look
> at [1] [2] you see that consensus voting allows for a veto (with a reason)
> and AFAIK most projects use consensus approval when adding committers/PMC
> members. It may be some don’t realise this as a -1 has never come up.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> 2. https://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#ConsensusApproval
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