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From "John D. Ament" <>
Subject Re: Podling user@ lists (was: [PROPOSAL] SkyWalking - proposal for Apache Incubation)
Date Fri, 01 Dec 2017 21:22:37 GMT
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 3:36 PM Dave Fisher <> wrote:

> On Dec 1, 2017, at 12:03 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
>> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Mike Jumper <>
> wrote:
> ...Gaining
> experience conducting non-development user support/discussion via
> mailing lists was important, and seems to me to be exactly the sort of
> thing that should be done prior to graduation, not after....
> What we've seen is that some podlings with smaller communities
> struggle to have enough traffic to have both a dev and a user lists.
> For those, or if unsure, it's better to have just a dev list, to avoid
> fragmenting the community.
> However if a podling is convinced that they need a user list I think
> that's perfectly fine.
> I just reviewed the small SAMOA podling which has been in the Incubator
> for almost three years.
> They have a users@ ML. In early 2015 there was one developer type
> question with a single answer. Since then the only emails on the list were
> Rich and Melissa with Apachecon CFP type emails.
> I think that we should change proposals so that proposed podlings should
> add an optional section describing their existing user base and how they
> intend to support it. This will mean that the question is answered instead
> of a common pattern being copied.
> There should be a patch on
> in the
> Mailing Lists section about why a user@ is not recommended.

I'd rather not say "not recommended" but instead something more like "here
are some cases about why you may not want a user@ list, and here are some
cases about why you would want a user@ list."  Granted, the frequency of
podlings requesting user@ lists is low, and those are typically from more
established podlings.   To be honest, the last I want to say to a potential
new podling is "don't create a user list, because your project might
fail."  Being more positive about it will help explain when you should and

At the end of the day, any VP and member can create a mailing list.  So
holding off on a user@ list until the podling is established is a trivial

> Perhaps this rewrite of Greg’s email before the “By default,"
> The formation of your community is a BIG DEAL. Partitioning the community between user@
and dev@ mailing lists makes it very difficult to establish a large, viable, sustainable community.
> If you have an already-built user community create separate lists. Small communities
should stick to a single dev@ list until you can't handle the traffic any more. If you have
the two lists, but your list traffic is still "small", then combine them.
> Regards,
> Dave
> -Bertrand
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