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From "John D. Ament" <johndam...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Drop incubating requirement of Maven artifacts
Date Tue, 03 Jan 2017 21:18:43 GMT
Julian,

I respect all opinions :-)
I think it would be good for people to continue on the discussions to so we
can understand all points of view.  The problem with policy is that you're
never going to satisfy everyone, and more than anything this seems
deadlocked, however we're only a day into the vote.

John

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:51 PM Julian Hyde <jhyde@apache.org> wrote:

> John,
>
> I see your points, and hopefully you see mine. I think we can agree on one
> thing: we have not reached consensus. :)
>
> The inconsistency among build tools is a red herring. If we want
> consistency across build tools (and more importantly across package
> formats, regardless of the tool used to build them), let’s first figure out
> what we want, and apply this to all build tools.
>
> Julian
>
>
> > On Jan 3, 2017, at 3:34 AM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Carsten, Julian,
> >
> > I want to reiterate my notes from a prior message [1] in case there is
> any
> > confusion over the ask.  There is a "best practice" around maven specific
> > releases that has been treated as policy,  [2].  This best practice for
> > some reason is only applied if you are using the maven build tool.  E.g.
> > published python packages, ruby gems do not have this requirement.  The
> > purpose of this thread is to realign maven specific releases with the
> other
> > convenience binaries published by podlings.
> >
> > This is not intended to drop the -incubator/-incubating tag applied to
> > source releases.  It was however established in 2008 [3] that releases
> > published by the incubator were endorsed, the -incubator/incubating tag
> was
> > to imply that the project itself was not considered stable and could go
> > away.
> >
> > John
> >
> > [1]:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c6daddf2d564685acdcd14a876bebf392b25c268905b353e36b3cac5@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> > [2]:
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/release-java.html#best-practice-maven
> > [3]:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/0b6c065a908c5f9ec39fa78c31b39c83a6fea29eb34fada0ee070413@1222432864@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:47 AM Carsten Ziegeler <cziegeler@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> -1
> >>
> >> I followed the "other thread" but it's still unclear to me what real
> >> problem this tries to solve.
> >> As others noted, there should be an indicator whether this is already an
> >> official Apache project or in the incubator and adding it to the version
> >> information is the solution with causes the least amount of pain for
> >> users. It's a simple marker, clearly visible for any user.
> >> And once the project is out of the incubator, users simply need to
> >> update to a new version - something which they would do anyway.
> >>
> >> Carsten
> >>
> >> John D. Ament wrote
> >>> All,
> >>>
> >>> I'm calling to vote on a proposed policy change.  Current guide at [1]
> >>> indicates that maven artifacts should include incubator (or incubating)
> >> in
> >>> the version string of maven artifacts.  Its labeled as a best practice,
> >> not
> >>> a requirement and is not a policy followed on other repository
> management
> >>> tools (e.g. PyPi).
> >>>
> >>> I therefore push forward that the incubator will cease expecting
> >> java-based
> >>> projects to publish artifacts with "-incubating" in the version string,
> >>> with the understanding that:
> >>>
> >>> - Incubating is a term used to refer to a project's stability, not a
> >>> release's stability.  It is generally understood that incubating
> projects
> >>> are not necessarily immature, but may have a potential of failing to
> >> become
> >>> a TLP.
> >>> - Podling releases are endorsed, the podling itself is not endorsed.
> We
> >>> will not approve releases that are blatantly against ASF policies.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [ ] +1 Drop the -incubator/-incubating expectation of maven projects
> >>> [ ] +/0
> >>> [ ] -1 Don't drop because....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [1]:
> >>>
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/release-java.html#best-practice-maven
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Carsten Ziegeler
> >> Adobe Research Switzerland
> >> cziegeler@apache.org
> >>
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> >>
> >>
>
>
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