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From Luke Han <luke...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] China Contribution. (was: RocketMQ Incubation Proposal)
Date Fri, 11 Nov 2016 06:18:39 GMT
Hi Gunnar,

I don't think your point is right, one community's problem (maybe not real,
but just
refer to what you mentioned) could NOT represent all contributions from
China,
or any other territories from all of the world.

This will misleading people to ignore contributions from Chinese and LABEL
for such
contributors and committers..as your pattern, there are tons of "issue" to
describe like
Russian Contribution, German Contributions, Canada contribution or others...
that's not right way.

Yes, Chinese people are not native English speakers, but they are
contributing to
most of the ASF projects and others foundation projects very much, involved
in many
discussion, development, decision and others deeply.

Let's try to talk with some data, here's summary about last 31 days mailing
list activity from lists.apache.org [1]:

Project         |  Emails    |   Topics    |   Participants
HBase         |   610      |    406      |   100
Spark           |   412      |    88       |   124
Kylin             |   294      |    144      |   61
CarbonData |   852      |    250      |   116
HAWQ          |   284      |    109      |   57
Trafodion      |   87       |    20       |   25

There are many Chinese people are participating in these projects, you
could check
each one and see how Chinese people are discussing within mailing list.

It's really not easy for Chinese people, they have to find out a way to
access
gmail or others since there's GFW, they are not native English speakers,
they have limited experiences for open source especially the Apache Way.
But they are willing to contribute, willing to participate global
community, and try
their best to learn and follow The Apache Way. We should have the patience
for
those new comers.

As one thing I'm doing now is try to let more people to know our journey,
our experience
 about how to follow the Apache Way, how we overcome such
challenges...through
conference, events, meetup, blog, book and so on...and also helping many
potential projects
who are interesting to join Apache family.

I would like suggest to change this topic to something like "Help Trafodion
community"
which will help to focus on real issue and your concern (Does Trafodion PMC
know
this concern?)  I'm very happy to help...share with you many articles,
session recordings and
others about open source, even could try to do some face to face discussion
if necessary:-)


[1] https://lists.apache.org  <https://lists.apache.org>

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 3:00 AM, Gunnar Tapper <tapper.gunnar@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Using the RocketMQ proposal to start a larger discussion.
>
> Apache Trafodion is another project that has a lot of contribution from
> China.
>
> One of the struggles I've seen is that the contributors aren't that active
> on email. Rather, they prefer to use a forum on QQ communicating in
> Chinese.
>
> I'm currently the release manager and I must admit that it's hard not to
> see all discussions. Several of us are trying to encourage questions etc
> via the email lists but users just prefer Chinese forums.
>
> I suspect that Apache will see more of this behavior moving forward,
> especially as other proposals come in. So, I'm hoping that members in China
> can help advise on what can be done to address communication issues like
> this.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gunnar
>
> On Nov 5, 2016 12:21 PM, "Ross Gardler" <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> Some folks may remember my state of the feather session a couple of years
> ago when I called for more awareness of the ASFs role in open source beyond
> English speaking countries. This was prompted by a fact finding trip to
> China.
>
> RocketMQ and the team behind it was one of the projects I talked to. We
> discussed the Apache way at length, however I have not been involved with
> this proposal.
>
> I'm excited to see this proposal. I hope we can bring this project and
> welcome the excellent team I met in China into the foundation. We will need
> to work hard to ensure the project is a success. Like other China born
> projects we will find that there are cultural differences that we need to
> understand, but this would not be the first time we, as a foundation and as
> individuals, accept an opportunity to grow in this way. Having met some of
> the proposing team I am confident that with the right mentors the project
> can succeed.
>
> Bruce, thanks for stepping up to help.
>
> Ross
>
> ---
> Twitter: @rgardler
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bruce Snyder <bruce.snyder@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 9:21:47 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] RocketMQ Incubation Proposal
>
> Hi John,
>
> Proposals for new ASF projects are offered to this list for constructive
> feedback. I am happy to help steer the RocketMQ proposal and project using
> your suggestions.
>
> First, as explained previously in this discussion thread by Von Gosling,
> there was some company IP that was mistakenly committed to the Github
> repository and through a '...unlucky... scavenging activity' the history
> was
> erased, as Von put it. I interpret this to mean that someone's git-fu went
> awry which unintentionally caused the history to be removed. Von also gives
> further explanation of the project history in a response below. Indeed,
> this is an unfortunate situation (and one that I've seen before with git),
> but should this prevent the project from coming to the ASF to improve and
> grow under the auspices of the ASF and The Apache Way?
>
> Second, regarding your statement: 'and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is
> the chair of one of the competitors' -- All projects at the ASF exist
> together regardless of their focus and all projects needs good mentors,
> regardless of whether they are seen as competing or not. My interest in
> helping the RocketMQ project is no different than my interest in continuing
> to be involved with the ActiveMQ project. I have nearly 15 years experience
> at the ASF and I'm not here to play games and favor one project over
> another. I continue to be involved with the ASF to collaborate
> constructively with others on open source and to foster a community of
> inclusiveness where we can all continually learn and grow. The ASF is an
> inclusive place where even experienced projects can learn from new
> projects. As I've said for many years, we all come for code and stay for
> the people. My intent is to use my experience to help a new project and
> people to the ASF.
>
> Third, I think the two questions you have posed are both good suggestions
> for discussion and debate and might even help to improve the proposal. Even
> if there are no solid answers today, I think these would also be great
> ideas to debate around the code base and within the project moving forward.
> I really like the idea of cross-pollination with the projects you mentioned
> as well as others at the ASF. Since I have not worked on the RocketMQ code
> base, I will allow Von to respond to two questions posed by John with his
> thoughts:
>
> Von, can you please provide your thoughts on the following two questions
> specifically:
>
> - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities to
> build cross platform clients?
> - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> persistence stores?
>
>
> Bruce
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:26 PM, John D. Ament <john.d.ament@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:43 PM Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The proposal looks fine in general, but I'm slightly concerned about:
> > >    https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Falibaba%2FRocketMQ%2Fgraphs%
> 2Fcontributors&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%
> 7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011
> db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=96ixj1Js5%
> 2BytkM0Pru7nABYfTTYimOP5se5POgOMleo%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > It seems that the model so far has been -- through huge blobs of
> > > code over the wall. Given that the composition of initial committers
> > > is all from Alibaba I hope their mentors will spend a lot of time
> > > making sure that "commit early, commit often" mentality prevails.
> > >
> > > In addition to that, I can't seem to reconcile the statement:
> > >    "The source code was opened up in 2012."
> > > with what I see on GitHub. What am I missing?
> > >
> >
> > So I think these are the same points I was bringing up as well.  I
> suspect
> > its a case where there wasn't a ton of open source development on the
> > product and it was kept internal.
> >
> > I'm still a bit leary about the "relationship with other apache products"
> > section still.  I'm not interested in seeing how a podling competes with
> > other projects (and its a bit surprising, since Bruce is the chair of one
> > of the competitors), but instead how the podling has synergies with the
> > other components.  I raised that they're using ASF projects today in
> their
> > code base.
> >
> > Some other ways to address this section:
> >
> > - How can RocketMQ work with the existing Kafka or ActiveMQ communities
> to
> > build cross platform clients?
> > - How can RocketMQ look to leverage Cassandra, Geode, Derby as backend
> > persistence stores?
> >
> > etc..
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Roman.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Brian McCallister <brianm@skife.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > +1 !
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Cool.
> > > >>
> > > >> +1
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Nov 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Bruce Snyder <bruce.snyder@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please find below a proposal for a new Incubator podling named
> > Apache
> > > >> > RocketMQ, a fast, low latency, reliable, scalable, distributed,
> easy
> > > to
> > > >> use
> > > >> > message-oriented middleware, especially for processing large
> amounts
> > > of
> > > >> > streaming data.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The draft proposal can be found in the wiki at the following
URL:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%
> 2Fwiki.apache.org%2Fincubator%2FRocketMQProposal&data=02%
> 7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%
> 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=
> xjsmhUA5%2Ftnl5HnA4LtQnVGa5ddYybjaKIe3CRgS9S0%3D&reserved=0
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Below, please find the text for the proposal below.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Bruce
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> perl -e 'print
> unpack("u30","D0G)U8V4\@4VYY9&5R\"F)R=6-E+G-N>61E<D\!G;6%I;\"YC;VT*" );'
>
> ActiveMQ in Action: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F2je6cQ&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%
> 7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011
> db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=WObI4mpJLTWW%2Fg6%
> 2BNB3ERPQJ6JVFuM0u4fWySbWWpGI%3D&reserved=0
> Blog: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
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> db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=9EWI%2FF%2FgDyaU9qybAVHRZ%
> 2FigY6o%2FjkAuZxilJ8uZMEg%3D&reserved=0 <https://na01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbruceblog.org%2F&
> data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597
> dcff%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%
> 7C636139597197176036&sdata=
> Vlc0l%2FVfE997etkGwBIVJ0wSQ6eDz3bPoWzeWLTl6X8%3D&reserved=0>
> Twitter: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbrucesnyder&data=02%7C01%
> 7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Cd12890186efe4c6e60c908d40597dcff%
> 7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636139597197176036&sdata=
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