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From Bertrand Delacretaz <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Fri, 23 Sep 2016 06:54:06 GMT
Hi Geertjan,

I won't have time to look at your whole message now, just a few
clarifications as far as committers/PMC is concerned.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Geertjan Wielenga <> wrote:
> ...Anyone on the list
> will, once the proposal has been voted on and accepted, automatically be
> contributors to the Apache NetBeans project...

They will be commiters to be precise.

> Anyone not on the list will
> need to be voted in by the initial contributors, which is a process that
> could be fast, but is still a process and can be avoided by inclusion in
> the initial contributors list...

It's a simple process, the incubating project could very well have one vote
for N people if that makes sense and they are all wanted.

> Everyone on the initial contributors list is
> automatically part of the PMC.

There's no PMC for an incubating project, just a PPMC as per

That group has no formal power, only the Incubator PMC can vote on the
podling's releases or make other decisions which are binding at the
foundation level.

In practice, you are correct that the PPMC is a PMC in training, but really
in a podling being a PPMC member doesn't make a difference IMO.

> ...Anyone on the list when the project leaves
> incubation gets write access to the project for the rest of their life...

That's correct, but there can be a difference between the committers and
PMC members once the project graduates. As a mentor, when graduating I
would not accept a PMC member who has not contributed during incubation for
example, whereas a committer that hasn't really been active during
incubation is harmless.

Committers don't have formal power once the project graduates, and if they
don't behave their commits rights can easily be suspended, temporarily or
permanently. That very rarely happens, just mentioning it to clarify the

In summary, what you don't want in an Apache project is poisonous PMC
members, so in my view to be on the PMC once graduating people will have to
demonstrate during incubation that they are making positive contributions
to it - just being on the initial list of committers doesn't count towards
that, in my book.

> ...If the above is accurate, we do need to work on the initial
> list prior to voting on the proposal, quite aside from the infra

I still don't think that's required and should be avoided if it delays the
vote for NetBeans acceptance, as the list of committers can be modified
during incubation with just a bit of additional work.

If you still want do expand the list during incubation, best is to come up
with a list of additional names that the existing NetBeans community feels
deserve to be on that list (maybe based on votes on the existing NetBeans
community's channels), and have the NetBeans mentors accept that new list.


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