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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Wed, 14 Sep 2016 21:14:25 GMT
Trying to answer two questions:

Geertjan Wielenga wrote on 9/14/16 3:49 PM:
> I can't wait for that to happen! In the meantime, can we call NetBeans by
> its real name: NetBeans, with an uppercase N and an uppercase B? Shall we
> all start maintaining that, i.e., using the correct name, which is NetBeans
> or, better yet, Apache NetBeans?
> Yes, Oracle is handing over everything in terms of trademarks to Apache,
> let's put aside that discussion since it's true, if you can point in the
> proposal where this is not clear or can be clearer, tell me and we will
> change/add/whatever. FYI -- no one creating independent products based on
> Apache NetBeans cares what its name is.

The branding requirement is that the ASF wholly legally owns the
trademarks and goodwill therewith before a podling can graduate.
Separately, during incubation and soon after a podling graduates to TLP,
the ASF expects the donor to update their own displays of the name to
properly reflect the ASF's ownership.

That being said, I noticed that the trademarks were explicitly marked in
the proposal, and know from past experience with an Oracle donation that
the transfers weren't a problem, so I'm not concerned.  The only issue
will be how many registrations and/or primary landing pages at Oracle
that will eventually need to be updated - I'm confident it will all be
done, but Geertjan and team should be prepared for the amount of work
when the time comes. 8-)

> Only two things are in discussion right now: (1) licensing [which has been
> discussed quite a bit with Apache folks like Bertrand and Ate prior to the
> proposal being published and we are comfortable we'll be able to solve
> everything] and (2) infrastructure migration [which has been outlined
> already, though we are working on a lot more details at the moment so that
> everything will be crystal clear].
> Thanks,
> Geertjan
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 8:40 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Wade Chandler
>> <> wrote:
>>> Do you mean from the stand point of it being a Java based application,
>> or that some how
>>> NetBeans and the Java TCK are related? I don’t think either is an impact
>> on NetBeans IMHO;
>>> not any more than it is for the Eclipse IDE or IntelliJ. Do you mean
>> because it is being contributed
>>> by Oracle perhaps? If so, does the donor have as much impact on
>> contributions as that once
>>> adopted by Apache? I may be misunderstanding what you are asking. I am
>> not an employee
>>> of Oracle; just an NB contributor.
>> I think the question is more along the lines of what else would be
>> required to produce a "canonical"
>> release of Apache Netbeans. If everything that is required is being
>> donated -- I think we're good.

Indeed - and remember, I'm not a regular NetBeans user.  But when I
google "NetBeans", I see lots of links of bundled JDK downloads and
various plugins that do all sorts of cool Java stuff.  My question is:
does producing a fully working core NetBeans require running any TCKs?
Similarly, do any of the top popular plugins that are de facto used by a
large part of the community (and might come to Apache) need to run TCKs
to ensure they comply with various Java standards?

I might be misunderstanding the way NetBeans works myself, but I know
that anything dealing with TCKs has been an issue for Apache projects
for a while now, and the IPMC needs to understand if that's a likely
issue for this potential podling or not.

- Shane

>> IOW, the project must be self-contained and not depend on anything
>> still left behind the firewall
>> to do on-going development and most important releases. E.g. if I send
>> you a patch -- you can't
>> reject it on the grounds that some test behind Oracle's frewall I've
>> never seen failed. Stuff like
>> that.
>> On a related note, I haven't seen it explicitly  mentioned in the
>> proposal, but I hope you guys do
>> realize that once this project is accepted the Netbeans brand belongs
>> to Apache. IOW, if Oracle
>> or anybody else ever want to have an independent product based on
>> Apache Netbeans they will
>> have to call it something else.
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
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