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From Craig Russell <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Sun, 25 Sep 2016 19:53:00 GMT
Hi Geertjan,

You have already noticed that at Apache we don’t all speak with one voice. Even those who
have literally been here for years may appear to disagree on the details, while I expect most
agree on the broad strokes.

Kudos for taking all the advice and proposing a plan to move this proposal forward. 

I think your plan below makes sense and the proposal is in good shape once the admin details
have been agreed.



> On Sep 24, 2016, at 8:22 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <>
> It really is impossible for us to follow all the (in many cases
> contradictory) advice we have been given re the initial contributors list.
> Here's what I propose:
> 1. We make the initial contributors list as detailed as we can, i.e., I
> have already started doing this, grouping individual contributors in
> specific categories and also indicating which ones have contributed in the
> past, in most cases the recent past, i.e., these are the ones with most
> direct skills who are likely to begin contributing as soon as possible.
> Yes, most of these are from Oracle, which makes sense since we're moving to
> Apache precisely in order to open up the governance model so that more can
> participate.
> 2. When in doubt, we will follow the advice of our mentors over the advice
> of those who are not our mentors.
> 3. We will show in the initial contributors list what each of the initial
> contributors is planning to contribute, as concretely as possible, to show
> that we have a list of contributors who really want to and are planning to
> contribute as soon as they're able to do so.
> 4. I don't believe anyone will fork NetBeans for not being on the initial
> contributors list nor do I believe that anyone will want to be on the
> initial contributors list as some kind of desire for status -- everyone on
> the list is known in one way or another in the community or has worked on
> NetBeans for years from within Oracle. These are all people who are
> committed to NetBeans and to its future in Apache.
> 5. At the end of incubation, we will go through the list very thoroughly.
> Anyone who has not contributed will be contacted to confirm that they'd
> like to be removed from the list before we become a TPL. I see no problems
> in that regard, I'm sure people who don't end up committing will have no
> problem being removed from the list at that stage and being voted in again
> if/when they change their mind later.
> Hope the above works for everyone and thanks everyone for all the energy
> everyone is putting into this process.
> Thanks,
> Geertjan
> On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 3:47 AM, Shane Curcuru <>
> wrote:
>> toki wrote on 9/24/16 8:04 PM:
>>> On 22/09/2016 05:18, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>>>> had a non-trivial amount of commits to then Sun NetBeans between
>> 2002-2008. He then drifted away from the
>>>> project but would be interested, potentially, re-engaging.
>>> Is it possible to create a "master list' of everybody who has
>>> contributed, when they contributed, and roughly how much they
>> contributed?
>>> If so, then:
>>> * send everybody on that list an ICLA to fill out and return;
>>> * Include that list as an appendix to the Incubation Paperwork. Call it
>>> _Individuals who, on request will be considered to be part of the
>>> Initial Committer List_, once the appropriate paperwork has been signed
>>> and submitted;
>>> * The _Initial Committer List_ consists of people who have signed and
>>> submitted the appropriate paperwork, and requested to be on the list;
>> My advice is to leave the initial committer list as-is, and then wait to
>> see who actually shows up to do work on the project during the
>> incubation process.
>> Part of what the IPMC looks for during incubation is can the podling
>> community self-govern, a large part of which is voting in new committers
>> in an appropriate fashion.
>> Separately, when a podling is ready to graduate, and the IPMC votes to
>> recommend graduation to the board, the actual committer and PMC lists
>> for the top level project sometimes change versus the whole committer
>> list during incubation.  People who never show up to actually work on
>> the podling probably should not be left on the committer list for the
>> future top level project.
>> - Shane
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Craig L Russell

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