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From Ate Douma <...@douma.nu>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Wed, 14 Sep 2016 19:54:06 GMT
On 2016-09-14 21:43, Ate Douma wrote:
> On 2016-09-14 17:14, David Nalley wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> <bdelacretaz@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Geertjan Wielenga
>>> <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> ...there is no code on plugins.netbeans.org at all. No one can donate
>>>> any code from anywhere on plugins.netbeans.org to anyone else. It simply
>>>> contains binaries...
>>>
>>> Thanks for the clarification.
>>>
>>> This confirms my view, I don't think we should make hosting
>>> plugins.netbeans.org part of the incubation plan. That hosting might
>>> happen later, separately, but it's IMO not a condition for a
>>> successful move of NetBeans to Apache and much better discussed
>>> separately, once the project starts.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>
>> While it may not be a requirement to enter incubation, I do want us to
>> understand plugins.netbeans.org (and any other pieces of their
>> infrastructure) I admit it's been some years since I have used
>> Netbeans in anger, but plugins are (or were) pretty important to the
>> user community. I don't want us to defer the discussion for it to come
>> back some years down the road, especially for something that I
>> perceive is important for the user community.
>
> I just created an account on netbeans.org to get an understanding what
> plugins.netbeans.org 'portal' provides.
>
> AFAICT it provides 4 main features, see [1] and [2]:
> - register a plugin 'advertisement', meaning plugin documentation
>   is provided through the plugins portal, which can include a link where
>   users can find and download the plugin elsewhere.
>   (note: I couldn't find an example nor can you specifically query on this)
> - register *and* upload a plugin which then can be downloaded
>   from the plugin portal itself
> - "Plugin Update Center" service through which plugins hosted by the portal
>   which also are verified against some criteria, are accessible and downloadable
>   from within Netbeans itself.
> - a backend database / CMS to store and manage above metadata, as well as a
>   frontend web application for managing and accessing this.
>
> Now, considering the above features the following idea is just a 'thinking out
> loud' brain fart for a possible solution which might make it feasible
> to host a Netbeans plugin portal by Apache itself, if:
> - It can/will use/support external hosting of 3rd party plugins (binaries).
>   For example as Maven artifact at Maven Central.
>   But Netbeans project provided/verified plugins could be hosted at Apache.
> - It just stores and provides editing capability for the meta-data concerning
>   the plugins. This might even be stored 'statically', e.g. as plain text or
>   json, or whatever, and even in a SCM if so desired.
> - It provides a specialized 'CMS' to allow (registered) end-users to add and
>   maintain their own plugin documentation. Again, this content might be
>   stored and served 'statically', kind of similar as we do for the Apache CMS.
> - It probably needs to support a separate 'end user' database and account
>   management, maybe similar to what we use for MoinMoin today (file based)?
> - Finally, the "Plugin Update Center" likewise could be a lightweight
>   'service' just querying the already statically made available meta-data.
>
> It would be a major benefit if something like this can make it feasible to host
> (only) the portal and its meta-data at Apache, thereby ensuring control and
> oversight by the Netbeans project itself.
> That way there is no need to 'license' the Netbeans plugins management to a
> third party and have them administer it, like in the case of Maven Central as
> David explained below.
>
> Of course, externally hosted plugin binaries still remain external.
> But verified Apache compliant plugins could be hosted at Apache itself.
> As well as clearly marked in the plugin portal as such, further strengthening
> the project and community binding at Apache.

BTW: the above is just a wild idea for also bringing plugins.netbeans.org to
Apache somewhere in the future.
I also do agree with Bertrand we should not make this part of the incubation
plan, or at least not as a condition for the move of Netbeans to Apache.


>
> Ate
>
> [1] http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqPluginAdd
> [2] http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqPluginUpdateCenter
>
>>
>> I think this is similar to Maven Central - yes, we license maven
>> central to a third party and they administer the service. However, if
>> the time comes that either Sonatype or the PMC kill that off, Maven
>> Central can't just 'go away' - either a second third-party would have
>> to come in, or the ASF will have to bear the responsibility. So even
>> if someone else is licensed the ability to run plugins.netbeans.org -
>> we need to understand the responsibilities, as it may come home to
>> roost.[1]
>>
>> --David
>>
>> [1] http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/come+home+to+roost  - My
>> apologies for the idiom.
>>
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