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From Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de.INVALID>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans Incubator Proposal
Date Wed, 21 Sep 2016 07:34:35 GMT
Please note that during the incubation people need to either show that they are eager to engage
with the community. It's not that the Podling PMC (PPMC) randomly invites people just because
their name get dropped, but the PPMC holds a VOTE based on their merit [1].

Usually all the initial committers of a poddling also become PPMC members.

Not sure if it would make sense to already split this into PPMC and committers for the initial
contributors?
Did you have any such merit based hierarchy in NetBeans? Or was it depending on Oracle who
has a saying?



LieGrue,
strub


[1] https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html





> On Wednesday, 21 September 2016, 7:41, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> 
>>  I've recently had an inquiry from a former Sun employee who
>>  used to hack on NetBeans way back when: how was the list
>>  of initial committers determined? Or more importantly, if he
>>  wants to be added to that list up-front would that be OK?
> 
> 
> Very many more will be added once we enter incubation.
> 
> I put the initial list of committers together. The initial list reflect an
> initial list of committers coming from Oracle [though several more will be
> added later] as well as an initial list of committers from companies
> committed to NetBeans primarily because their software, e.g., at Airbus and
> European Space Agency, depends on it.
> 
> A growing list of developers have indicated they'd like to be added too.
> We'll start doing that as indicated in the propopsal -- as soon as the
> proposal has been voted on, accepted, and entered into incubation.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Geertjan
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
> 
>>  Hi!
>> 
>>  I've recently had an inquiry from a former Sun employee who
>>  used to hack on NetBeans way back when: how was the list
>>  of initial committers determined? Or more importantly, if he
>>  wants to be added to that list up-front would that be OK?
>> 
>>  Thanks,
>>  Roman.
>> 
>>  On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:40 AM, Geertjan Wielenga
>>  <geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>  > Hello everyone,
>>  >
>>  > Attached to this message is a proposed new project - Apache NetBeans, 
> a
>>  > development environment, tooling platform, and application framework.
>>  >
>>  > The text of the proposal is included below. Additionally, the proposal 
> is
>>  > in draft form on the Wiki, where we will make any required changes:
>>  >
>>  > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/NetBeansProposal
>>  >
>>  > We look forward to your feedback and input.
>>  >
>>  > Kind regards,
>>  >
>>  > Geertjan
>>  >
>>  > ----
>>  >
>>  > = NetBeans Proposal =
>>  >
>>  > == Abstract ==
>>  >
>>  > NetBeans is an open source development environment, tooling platform,
>>  > and application framework, used by 1.5 million individuals each month.
>>  >
>>  > == Proposal ==
>>  >
>>  > Apache NetBeans will continue to focus on the areas it has focused on
>>  > while sponsored by Sun Microsystems and Oracle. It will continue to
>>  > primarily focus on providing tools for the Java ecosystem, while also
>>  > being focused on tools for other ecosystems, languages and
>>  > technologies, such as JavaScript, PHP, and C/C++. It will continue to
>>  > actively support its community by means of mailing lists, tutorials,
>>  > and documentation.
>>  >
>>  > == Background ==
>>  >
>>  > NetBeans started in 1995/96 in Prague, in the Czech Republic, as a
>>  > student project. Sun Microsystems acquired and open sourced it in 2000
>>  > and, with the acquisition of Sun Microsystems by Oracle in 2010,
>>  > became part of Oracle. Throughout its history in Sun Microsystems and
>>  > Oracle, NetBeans has been free and open source and has been leveraged
>>  > by its sponsor as a mechanism for driving the Java ecosystem forward.
>>  >
>>  > == Rationale ==
>>  >
>>  > Although NetBeans is already open source, moving it to a neutral place
>>  > like Apache, with its strong governance model, is expected to help get
>>  > more contributions from various organizations. For example, large
>>  > companies are using NetBeans as an application framework to build
>>  > internal or commercial applications and are much more likely to
>>  > contribute to it once it moves to neutral Apache ground. At the same
>>  > time, though Oracle will relinquish its control over NetBeans,
>>  > individual contributors from Oracle are expected to continue
>>  > contributing to NetBeans after it has been contributed to Apache,
>>  > together with individual contributors from other organizations, as
>>  > well as self-employed individual contributors.
>>  >
>>  > == Initial Goals ==
>>  >
>>  > The initial goals of the NetBeans contribution under the Apache
>>  > umbrella are to establish a new home for an already fully functioning
>>  > project and to open up the governance model so as to simplify and
>>  > streamline contributions from the community.
>>  >
>>  > == Current Status ==
>>  >
>>  > Meritocracy: NetBeans has been run by Oracle, with the majority of
>>  > code contributions coming from Oracle. The specific reason for moving
>>  > to Apache is to expand the diversity of contributors and to increase
>>  > the level of meritocracy in NetBeans. Apache NetBeans will be actively
>>  > seeking new contributors and will welcome them warmly and provide a
>>  > friendly and productive environment for purposes of providing a
>>  > development environment, tooling environment, and application
>>  > framework.
>>  >
>>  > Community: NetBeans has approximately 1.5 million active users around
>>  > the world, in extremely diverse structures and organizations. NetBeans
>>  > is used by teachers and instructors at schools and universities to
>>  > teach Java and other languages. It is used by students as an
>>  > educational tool. It is used by large organizations who base their
>>  > software on the application framework beneath NetBeans. It is used by
>>  > web developers for creating web sites and by developers using a range
>>  > of tools, languages, and technologies to be productive and efficient
>>  > software developers.
>>  >
>>  > Core Developers: The core developers will come from a range of
>>  > organizations, including Oracle, which will continue its investment in
>>  > NetBeans.
>>  >
>>  > Alignment: The application framework is the basis of a range of
>>  > mission critical scientific software at large organizations in
>>  > defense, aerospace, logistics, and research, such as at Boeing,
>>  > Airbus, NASA, and NATO.
>>  >
>>  > == Known Risks ==
>>  >
>>  > Orphaned Products: The community proposing NetBeans for incubation is
>>  > strong and vibrant. The size and diversity of the community is a
>>  > guarantee against the project being orphaned.
>>  >
>>  > Inexperience with Open Source: NetBeans has been free and open source
>>  > since the early days of its sponsorship by Sun Microsystems. Though
>>  > some in the NetBeans community may have worked on Apache projects, the
>>  > majority who haven't are well versed in the principles of open 
> source.
>>  >
>>  > Homogenous Developers: Individual contributors from Oracle and other
>>  > initial committer organizations will contribute code to NetBeans in
>>  > Apache, while at the same time individuals from other organizations
>>  > will actively be sought to be added to the project. The aim of the
>>  > move to Apache is precisely to open up the governance model, hence the
>>  > desire to build up an extremely heterogeneous developer base is
>>  > strong. For example, several organizations are very heavily invested
>>  > in the NetBeans application framework, having based their software
>>  > suites on top of it, hence there will be a significant interest to
>>  > make available individual contributors from these organizations, which
>>  > tend to be large and well established in the software industry. Also,
>>  > including and beyond these organizations, the NetBeans community
>>  > around the world is extremely diverse and heterogenous in relation to
>>  > geography and backgrounds of developers.
>>  >
>>  > Reliance on Salaried Developers: Most of the contributors are
>>  > anticipated to be paid to work on projects in the Java ecosystem.
>>  > Others will come from organizations where they are paid to work with
>>  > other languages and technologies, such as JavaScript, PHP, and C/C++.
>>  > However, since Java skills are needed to develop most parts of
>>  > NetBeans, it is unlikely that the developers will go very far outside
>>  > the Java ecosystem.
>>  >
>>  > Relationships with Other Apache Products: Many Apache projects have
>>  > been supported by tooling in NetBeans over the years, such as Apache
>>  > Ant and Apache Maven. A number of Apache projects are used by
>>  > NetBeans, such as Apache Commons and friends.
>>  >
>>  > An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand: NetBeans has a strong
>>  > brand of its own. Though the stability of the Apache ecosystem is
>>  > attractive, the reason for this proposal is simply to be part of the
>>  > neutral development sharing ecosystem that Apache makes available.
>>  >
>>  > == Documentation ==
>>  >
>>  > See https://netbeans.org/kb/index.html for an extensive portal to all
>>  > the documentation.
>>  >
>>  > == Initial Source ==
>>  >
>>  > The initial source is in Mercurial at hg.netbeans.org and will be
>>  > moved, with assistance from Apache infra team, to Apache Git.
>>  >
>>  > == Source and IP Submission Plan ==
>>  >
>>  > NetBeans is dual licensed, CDDL + GPL v2 with Classpath Exception.
>>  > Upon entering Apache, the NetBeans license will be migrated to the
>>  > current Apache License.
>>  >
>>  > == Trademarks ==
>>  >
>>  > Oracle owns trademark registrations for the NetBeans mark in the U.S.
>>  > and EU, and would donate those, including the name 
> "NetBeans" and the
>>  > "netbeans.org" domain, to the Apache Foundation, along with 
> other
>>  > artifacts, including the U.S. copyright registrations related to
>>  > NetBeans. The trademark and copyright transfers would be detailed in
>>  > separate documents.
>>  >
>>  > == External Dependencies ==
>>  >
>>  > NetBeans is a large project with multiple dependencies and some
>>  > changes may be needed during incubation to comply with Apache
>>  > requirements.
>>  > https://netbeans.org/downloads/licence/8.1/nb81-THIRDPARTYLICENSE.txt
>>  >
>>  > Identifying which dependencies are core and non-core will be needed as
>>  > part of the process in meeting Apache requirements about third-party
>>  > dependencies. (L)GPL (and possibly other) based dependencies and
>>  > usages will need to be reviewed, and solved, as Apache does not allow
>>  > (L)GPL dependencies, although these concerns can be resolved during
>>  > incubation, and are not upfront blockers.
>>  >
>>  > == Required Resources ==
>>  >
>>  >  * Mailing Lists: dev, user, committs, and private 
> @netbeans.apache.org
>>  >  * Wiki
>>  >  * Website
>>  >  * Source Control: Git
>>  >  * Issue Tracking
>>  >  * Release Infrastructure - Hudson/Jenkins, etc
>>  >
>>  > Specific Infrastructure Requests
>>  >
>>  >  * Migration of large existing Mercurial repository to Apache Git
>>  >  * Migration of internal Oracle release infrastructure to Apache
>>  infrastructure
>>  >  * Migration of plugin publication system, plugins.netbeans.org, to
>>  > Apache infrastructure
>>  >  * Migration of website and related content management system to
>>  > Apache infrastructure
>>  >  * Evaluation and identification of other NetBeans infrastructure to
>>  > be migrated to Apache infastructures
>>  >
>>  > == Initial Committers ==
>>  >
>>  > Below is the initial list of individual contributors, while more
>>  > individual contributors will be added during incubation.
>>  >
>>  > ASF members with a specific interest in the project are welcome to
>>  > request being added to this list of initial committers.
>>  >
>>  > After the project has been accepted and started in the incubator,
>>  > additional committers can join, as usual, based upon their merit in
>>  > the project.
>>  >
>>  >  * James Gosling (Liquid Robotics)
>>  >  * Kirk Pepperdine (jClarity)
>>  >  * Martijn Verburg (jClarity)
>>  >  * Bruno Souza (SouJava)
>>  >  * Leonardo Loch Zanivan (SouJava)
>>  >  * Michel Graciano (SouJava)
>>  >  * Michael Nascimento Santos (Improving)
>>  >  * Anton Epple (Dukehoff)
>>  >  * Sven Reimers (Airbus Defense and Space)
>>  >  * Martin Klaehn (Airbus Defense and Space)
>>  >  * Floran Vogler (Airbus Defense and Space)
>>  >  * Jörg Michelberger (Airbus Defense and Sapce)
>>  >  * Norman Fomferra (European Space Agency)
>>  >  * Marco Peters (European Space Agency)
>>  >  * Tonio Fincke (European Space Agency)
>>  >  * Emmanuel Hugonnet (Red Hat)
>>  >  * Mark Stephens (IDR Solutions)
>>  >  * Georgia Ingham (IDR Solutions)
>>  >  * Mike Kelly (US DOD)
>>  >  * Emilian Bold (Joseki Bold SRL)
>>  >  * Timon Veenstra (Corizon BV)
>>  >  * Kendrik Veenstra (Corizon BV)
>>  >  * Francesco Perez Duran (Corizon BV)
>>  >  * Christian Stolz (Janitza)
>>  >  * Ernest Lotter (Institute of Mine Seismology)
>>  >  * Steve Millidge (Payara Services)
>>  >  * Andrew Pielage (Payara Services)
>>  >  * Johan Vos (Gluon)
>>  >  * Jose Pereda (Gluon)
>>  >  * Neil C. Smith (PRAXIS Live)
>>  >  * Valentin Buergel (Simtec Buergel AG)
>>  >  * Stephen Cumminger (Sonideft)
>>  >  * Shai Almog (Codename One)
>>  >  * Steve Hannah (Codename One)
>>  >  * Zoran Sevarac (University of Belgrade)
>>  >  * Henry Arousell (Björn Lundén Information AB)
>>  >  * Thomas Boqvist (Björn Lundén Information AB)
>>  >  * Jaroslav Tulach (Oracle)
>>  >  * Don Kretsch (Oracle)
>>  >  * Vladimir Voskresensky (Oracle)
>>  >  * Dmitry Zharkov (Oracle)
>>  >  * Liang Chen (Oracle)
>>  >  * Geertjan Wielenga (Oracle)
>>  >  * Tomas Zezula (Oracle)
>>  >  * Dusan Balek (Oracle)
>>  >  * Svatopluk Dedic (Oracle)
>>  >  * Tomas Hurka (Oracle)
>>  >  * Milutin Kristofic (Oracle)
>>  >  * Jiri Sedlacek (Oracle)
>>  >  * Miloslav Metelka (Oracle)
>>  >  * Petr Hejl (Oracle)
>>  >  * Tomas Stupka (Oracle)
>>  >  * Petr Pisl (Oracle)
>>  >  * Martin Entlicher (Oracle)
>>  >  * Tomas Mysik (Oracle)
>>  >  * Martin Balin (Oracle)
>>  >  * Libor Fischmeister (Oracle)
>>  >  * Petr Gebauer (Oracle)
>>  >  * Ondrej Vrabec (Oracle)
>>  >  * Jaroslav Havlin (Oracle)
>>  >  * Jiri Skrivanek (Oracle)
>>  >  * Jiri Prox (Oracle)
>>  >  * Jiri Kovalsky (Oracle)
>>  >
>>  > == Sponsors ==
>>  >
>>  > Champion:
>>  >  * Bertrand Delacratez
>>  >
>>  > Mentors:
>>  >  * Bertrand Delacratez
>>  >  * Emmanuel Lécharny
>>  >  * Ate Douma
>>  >
>>  > Sponsoring Entity
>>  >  * The Apache Incubator
>> 
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