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From "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)" <>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Accept Pony Mail into the Apache Incubator
Date Wed, 25 May 2016 00:03:54 GMT
+1 binding

Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Chief Architect
Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
Director, Information Retrieval and Data Science Group (IRDS)
Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA

On 5/24/16, 5:03 PM, "Henry Saputra" <> wrote:

>+1 (binding)
>Have fun guys!
>On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 10:56 PM, Daniel Gruno <> wrote:
>> Since it seems the discussion has died down, I am now calling a vote on
>> accepting Pony Mail into the Incubator. Sorry in advance for potato.
>> This vote will run for the usual 72 hours.
>> ################### PROPOSAL BELOW ###################
>> Abstract
>> Pony Mail is a mail-archiving, archive viewing, and interaction service,
>> that can be integrated with many email platforms.
>> Proposal
>> Background
>> Pony Mail began as a response to two things; the lack of diversity in
>> mailing list archives that are less bureaucratic all-or-nothing and more
>> fluid way to interact with mailing lists than what is typically offered,
>> and the lack of a performant system that solves this issue. Modern users
>> of software want to jump right into a discussion they see, but cannot
>> normally do so in a mailing list driven environment because of the rules
>> generally surrounding said environment. Pony Mail, along with a select
>> handful of newer archive systems, provides an interface that allows
>> people to just hop into a thread, and take part. Without the need to
>> subscribe, download the mbox archive, load it into your MTA, and respond.
>> As Rich writes in a very short essay:
>> You see a thread in which someone is WRONG ON THE INTERNET! You need to
>> correct them. How do you do this today? You kinda don't. If you really
>> wanted, you could download mbox files (and who the hell knows where they
>> are?) and then try to get them into your mail client (which never works)
>> and then reply to it. Which will break threading, because you did
>> something wrong. Then you tear out your hair. PONY MAIL TO THE RESCUE!!!
>> (sound of hoof beats)
>> Rationale
>> One of the oft-heard complaints about Apache's development model is that
>> mailing lists are an old person's tool, and web-based communication -
>> forums - are the way to go in the 21st Century. Providing a
>> full-featured forum-like interface to mailing lists is one goal,while
>> keeping all of the enormous benefits that mailing lists already provide.
>> Asecond goal is to provide the ability to "jump in" to a mailing list
>> conversation - even one that was a while back, without the convolutions
>> that a mailing list requires. That is, to join this conversation the old
>> way, one would have had to subscribe to the mailing list, download an
>> mbox, and import it into ones mail client, in order that I be able to
>> reply to this message with correct threading. With Pony Mail, one has to
>> do none of those things, but can simply reply using the Web UI. To us,
>> this is a HUGE benefit for building community. The requirement to jump
>> through hoops to join a mailing list conversation drives away a lot of
>> people (at least, anecdotally, it does) and if we can remove that
>> barrier I think we'll have an easier time of drawing a new generation
>> into our projects.
>> Initial Goals
>> The initial goals of transitioning to the ASF is to expand and grow both
>> the Pony codebase and community, and ensure the project's continued
>> growth and stability through forming a diverse and reliable community,
>> in which the various facets of developers and contributors help keep the
>> project up to date with latest developments and technical as well as
>> social needs.
>> Current Status
>>     Meritocracy:
>> The bulk of the code has been written by Daniel Gruno to date, but has
>> had oversight from other committers, and mentors.
>>     All members of the Pony project and wider community have a deep
>> understanding and appreciation for the ASF meritocracy ideals, and are
>> almost solely current ASF Members.
>>     Community:
>>         The community is currently heavily focused within the ASF, and
>> more specifically the Infrastructure group. This is to be expected given
>> the nature of how the code came into existence in the first place. It
>> should be noted that we have started reaching out to other groups who we
>> know are using mailing list systems and therefore also rely on mailing
>> list archive interfaces.
>>     Core Developers:
>> Almost all core developers are ASF members, and are already intimately
>> familiar with the Apache Way.
>>     Alignment:
>> Pony will be very in line with ASF practices and processes as many of
>> the founding members are long term ASF members and committers.
>> Known Risks
>>     Orphaned products:
>> We are not aware of any issues with orphaned products related to this
>> project.
>>     Pony Mail relies on a set of CSS3 templates as well as some very stable
>>         programming languages. We have no reason to believe these would
>> be orphaned or, should they become orphaned, that it would impact the
>> development of the project.
>>     Inexperience with Open Source:
>>         Most of the current committers are already ASF members and
>> committers, we do not believe there to be any concerns around OSS
>> inexperience.
>>     Homogenous Developers:
>>         While the current mix of people involved in the project spans
>> several continents with a wide variety of skills and experience, a long
>> standing relation with the ASF applies to all committers (even the
>> non-ASF people in this proposal are intimately familiar with the ASF),
>> and we believe there to be a very homogeneous culture in terms of
>> development, IP and release processes.
>>     Reliance on Salaried Developers:
>>         While two of the committers in this project are salaried
>> developers with regards to Pony, the project was founded outside of
>> corporate interests, and is primarily driven by people either working
>> for or with ties to non-profit
>>         organisations.
>>         We see no issues regarding possible strong-arming or otherwise
>> skewing project focus, nor do we believe that absence of salaries would
>> deter people from committing to this project.
>>     Relationships with Other Apache Products:
>>         Pony Mail uses at least Apache HTTPd with mod_lua as its
>> end-user facing delivery mechanism. Many of the commiters are also
>> involved with this PMC.
>>         Pony also utilises ElasticSearch which is based on Lucene.
>> Documentation
>>     Documentation will initially be in the source tree, and be part of
>> the initial code inclusion.
>> Initial Source
>>     The initial source was written under the Apache License v/2.0 from
>> the beginning, and is available at:
>> Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan
>>     We know of no legal encumberments in the way of transfer of source
>> to Apache. Portions of the software (sans dependencies) is already owned
>> by the ASF, other portions privately, but it will be granted to the ASF
>> in its entirety.
>> External Dependencies:
>>     ElasticSearch backend (Apache License v/2.0)
>>     Apache HTTP Server front-end with mod_lua loaded (Apache License
>> v/2.0 for httpd, MIT for Lua)
>>     Python 3.x for importing/archiving (PSF License)
>>     Lua 5.1 or 5.2 + lua-cjson (MIT License, lua-cjson is optional)
>>     Bootstrap/JQuery (MIT License)
>> Cryptography Pony employs no cryptography other than what TLS-enabled
>> web sites served by HTTPd might use.
>> Required Resources:
>>     Mailing lists:It would be rude not too, given this project should
>> archive them.
>>     Subversion Directory:Nope
>>     Git Repositories:
>>         - incubator-ponymail.git - incubator-ponymail-site.git
>>     Issue Tracking: JIRA or GitHub Issues
>>     Other Resources: Dev stack, PoC Stack, HipChat Channel
>> Initial Committers
>>     Daniel Gruno < >
>>     Tony Stevenson < >
>>     Richard Bowen < >
>>     Ulises Beresi < >
>>     David P Kendal < >
>>     Francesco Chicchiriccò - < >
>>     Sam Ruby < >
>>     Shane Curcuru < >
>>     Jim Jagielski < >
>> Affiliations
>>     Daniel Gruno - Quenda IvS
>>     Tony Stevenson - pctony ltd, VocalIQ Ltd
>>     Richard Bowen - Redhat, inc.
>>     Ulises Beresi - Datastax, inc.
>>     David P Kendal - Quenda IvS
>>     Francesco Chicchiriccò - Tirasa S.r.l.
>>     Sam Ruby - IBM
>>     Shane Curcuru - IBM(?)
>>     Jim Jagielski - Capital One
>> Sponsors
>>     Champion:
>>         Suneel Marthi < >
>>     Nominated Mentors:
>>         Andrew Bayer < >
>>         John D. Ament < >
>>     Sponsoring Entity:
>>         The Apache Software Foundation
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