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From "John D. Ament" <johndam...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduate Johnzon from the Incubator
Date Tue, 05 Apr 2016 03:15:57 GMT
I have to agree with Ted's synopsis.  After reviewing the podling's
proposal compared to current date, it seems that there's actually been a
dramatic decrease in committers since inception.  I didn't realize that
when originally looking.

I do however want to clarify - I think Johnzon is mature.  The PPMC
understands the apache way and has done a great job in incubation.

I think I pitched this, a long while ago, but would it be a bad move to
graduate into a sub-project under TomEE or Geronimo?  AFAIK, everyone but
Hendrik is already on those PMCs.

John

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 6:41 PM Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com> wrote:

> My suggestion would be to work on building community first.
>
> Not pulling in new committers and PMC members is evidence of a serious
> community bug. It could be lack of marketing, unfriendly natives,
> cliquishness or an idea that just doesn't have legs. Probably it is
> something I didn't think of.
>
> In any case, it would be a really good idea for the current community to
> show that they can deal with this problem so we don't wind up with a
> top-level project that doesn't work.
>
> Also, even though I have no idea if it is a reasonable outcome, you should
> always explore the question of where the overhead of a top-level Apache
> project is even the appropriate outcome. Such a self-examination is always
> a bit hard and can be very emotionally overloaded, but it is important to
> stop for a moment to consider what the best outcome for the project, the
> users of the project and the members of the project really is. For some
> projects, graduation as a small TLP is right. For somewhat more projects,
> transition to a non-Apache project structure is right.
>
> In most cases, however, it really is best to slog a bit longer and get good
> at building up the community.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Jean-Louis MONTEIRO <jeanouii@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > So, what are the next steps?
> >
> > Do we have to postpone the graduation and try to bring up more
> contributors
> > before?
> > Or do we want to still graduate and work out the community growth after?
> >
> > Jean-Louis
> >
> >
> >
> > Le lun. 4 avr. 2016 à 02:50, Niall Pemberton <niall.pemberton@gmail.com>
> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:54 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Niali,
> > >>
> > >> I don't disagree with your assessment.  In actuality, Johnzon has only
> > >> added one committer in its 22 months in the incubator, who later
> joined
> > >> their PPMC and is now slated to be their VP.  However, adding
> committers
> > >> isn't the only form of community growth we expect to see when
> > graduating.
> > >> JIRA tickets, user input and seeing the developers interact on the
> > various
> > >> lists are also taken into account.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >> The fact that the podling has some potential new committers in the
> > >> pipeline
> > >> is also great to hear.
> > >>
> > >> The minimum viable project is three PMC members.  Johnzon is a bit
> > bigger
> > >> than that.  You also have to keep in mind that there are some projects
> > >> that
> > >> are just gigantic.  Not every project needs to match that structure.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I did some more research and looked at the proposed PMC participation
> in
> > > the 10 Johnzon release votes (see attachment) and there are four active
> > > members. I will withdraw my vote, but I think Johnzon with 4 people and
> > > only 2 really active on the code is borderline and it needs to recruit
> > more
> > > people to be sustainable long term.
> > >
> > > Niall
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM Niall Pemberton <
> > niall.pemberton@gmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Mark Struberg
> > <struberg@yahoo.de.invalid
> > >> >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Please look at more current data
> > >> > >
> > >> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-johnzon/graphs/contributors
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I didn't see your commits today - but otherwise doesn't look alot
> > >> > difference.
> > >> >
> > >> > Also note that there are patches applied from contributors via Jira
> > >> patches
> > >> > > and NOT via git-pull. Thus they show not up in the graph above.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > From that category we have Reinhard Sandtner (apacheId rsandtner)
> > >> which
> > >> > is
> > >> > > closely looked for as potential committer and Karl Grosse (also
on
> > our
> > >> > > watch list). Both provided patches and contributed in hacking
> > >> sessions.
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > Thats great, but I agree with the  June, Sept & Dec 2015 board
> reports
> > >> > about growing the committers/ppmc - and I don't understand why that
> > was
> > >> > reported as a graduation requirement and now its not and Johnzon is
> > >> ready?
> > >> >
> > >> > Niall
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > LieGrue,
> > >> > > strub
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > On Sunday, 3 April 2016, 20:18, Niall Pemberton <
> > >> > > niall.pemberton@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > > > > Johnzon reports for June, Sept & Dec 2015 all listed
"adding
> new
> > >> > > > committers/pmc members" in the "most important issues to
address
> > in
> > >> > > > the
> > >> > > > move towards graduation" - but in that time there were no
> changes
> > to
> > >> > the
> > >> > > > community. So what changed to make the ppmc/mentors now
think
> the
> > >> > project
> > >> > > > is ready to graduate?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Johnzon has added Hendrik Saly as a committer/ppmc member
(Aug
> > 2014
> > >> /
> > >> > Apr
> > >> > > > 2015), but of the 6 original committers listed on the original
> > >> > proposal,
> > >> > > > only 3 are on proposed TLP, so the statement in the Maturity
> model
> > >> > saying
> > >> > > > "List of commmitters and PPMC members has grown during
> incubation"
> > >> is
> > >> > > > a bit
> > >> > > > misleading.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > From looking at commits, there are only 2 active people[1]
and
> for
> > >> me
> > >> > > thats
> > >> > > > a concern for the projects long term viability and so my
vote is
> > -1
> > >> to
> > >> > > > graduation.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > [1]
> > http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.fleece.commits
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Niall
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Hendrik Dev <
> > hendrikdev22@gmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> > > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >>  The Apache Johnzon community has discussed and voted
on
> > >> graduation to
> > >> > > >>  a top level project. The vote passed with 8 +1 votes
(5 from
> the
> > >> > PPMC)
> > >> > > >>  and no 0 or -1 votes.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  Incubation Status:
> > >> > > >>  http://incubator.apache.org/projects/johnzon.html
> > >> > > >>  Maturity Assessment:
> > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/d88S
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >>  Discussions:
> > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/5vxO
> > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/8VkX
> > >> > > >>  Vote:
> > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/suuK
> > >> > > >>  (http://markmail.org/message/mawumtfqokgye5xn)
> > >> > > >>  Result:
> > >> > > >>  https://s.apache.org/Erd0
> > >> > > >>  (http://markmail.org/message/qmqvk56ccqkq2gob)
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  Please vote on the resolution pasted below to graduate
Apache
> > >> Johnzon
> > >> > > >>  from the incubator to top level project.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  [ ] +1 Graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator.
> > >> > > >>  [ ] +0 Don't care.
> > >> > > >>  [ ] -1 Don't graduate Apache Johnzon from the Incubator
> because
> > >> ...
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  This vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  Many thanks to our mentors and everyone else for the
support,
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  Hendrik Saly on behalf of the Apache Johnzon PPMC
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon top-level project resolution:
> > >> > > >>  ============================================
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the
best
> > >> > > >>  interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > >> > > >>  Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > >> > > >>  Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of
> > >> > > >>  open-source software, for distribution at no charge
to
> > >> > > >>  the public, related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing
and a
> > >> > > >>  set of useful modules to help with the usage of JSR-353
> > >> > > >>  as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related
JSRs
> > >> > > >>  (like JSR-367).
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > >> > > >>  Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Johnzon
Project",
> > >> > > >>  be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of
the
> > >> > > >>  Foundation; and be it further
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and hereby
is
> > >> > > >>  responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > >> > > >>  related to JSR-353 compliant JSON parsing and a
> > >> > > >>  set of useful modules to help with the usage of JSR-353
> > >> > > >>  as well as JSR successors (like JSR-374) or related
JSRs
> > >> > > >>  (like JSR-367); and be it further
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache
Johnzon"
> be
> > >> > > >>  and hereby is created, the person holding such office
to
> > >> > > >>  serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as
the chair
> > >> > > >>  of the Apache Johnzon Project, and to have primary
> > responsibility
> > >> > > >>  for management of the projects within the scope of
> > >> > > >>  responsibility of the Apache Johnzon Project; and be
it
> further
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below
be and
> > >> > > >>  hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members
of the
> > >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon Project:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  * Justin Mclean <jmclean AT apache.org>
> > >> > > >>  * Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau AT apache.org>
> > >> > > >>  * Jean-Louis Monteiro <jlmonteiro AT apache.org>
> > >> > > >>  * Mark Struberg <struberg AT apache.org>
> > >> > > >>  * Hendrik Saly <salyh AT apache.org>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Hendrik
Saly
> > (salyh)
> > >> > > >>  be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache
Johnzon,
> to
> > >> > > >>  serve in accordance with and subject to the direction
of the
> > >> > > >>  Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation
until
> > >> > > >>  death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
> > >> > > >>  or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Johnzon PMC be and
hereby is
> > >> > > >>  tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended
to
> > >> > > >>  encourage open development and increased participation
in the
> > >> > > >>  Apache Johnzon Project; and be it further
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that the Apache Johnzon Project be and hereby
> > >> > > >>  is tasked with the migration and rationalization of
the Apache
> > >> > > >>  Incubator Johnzon podling; and be it further
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the
Apache
> > >> > > >>  Incubator Johnzon podling encumbered upon the Apache
Incubator
> > >> > > >>  Project are hereafter discharged.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>  --
> > >> > > >>  Hendrik Saly (salyh, hendrikdev22)
> > >> > > >>  @hendrikdev22
> > >> > > >>  PGP: 0x22D7F6EC
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> > > >>  For additional commands, e-mail:
> > >> general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
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> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
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