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From Jean-Baptiste Onofré>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Dataflow Incubator Proposal
Date Fri, 22 Jan 2016 10:07:51 GMT
It makes perfect sense, and it's something that we already discussed.

Thanks James and Marvin.

@James, yes, we are going to deal with that together, not a problem at 
all. I agree that renaming should happen now.
As discussed, we should be back with a new name early next week.

I'm happy to see the discussion now (and thanks again Marvin for details 
and always helpful messages): it's exactly the purpose of sending the 
discussion thread on the incubator mailing list.

Thanks guys !


On 01/22/2016 02:19 AM, James Malone wrote:
> Thank you for such a detailed response Marvin!
> Everything you mention makes a lot of sense. Needless to say, we don't want
> to squander cycles, break any rules, or throw velocity into disarray all
> due to a name.
> To that end, I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal with respect
> to renaming. I'm also going to clarify a name change would be an
> immediate-term to-do item so it does not block creation creation of lists,
> repositories, and so on.
> Best,
> James
> I am going to work with JB to amend the proposal to indicate
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey <>
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:30 PM, James Malone
>> <> wrote:
>>> If we need to rename, we would ideally choose a new name, change the
>>> project name at that time, and start our refactoring with that new name.
>> Is
>>> is acceptable for us to flag a name change as something we need to do as
>> a
>>> near-term (1st month) item in incubation (if accepted)? If a rename is
>>> required I'd like to add it to our to-do roadmap but also not block our
>>> proposal on a renaming. I ask so we can address this concern in the best
>>> way possible.
>> That's acceptable.  Project naming issues do not block entry into the
>> Incubator, they block graduation from the Incubator.
>> Because "dataflow" is descriptive, it will be hard to defend as
>> a trademark.  The Wikipedia article on trademark distinctiveness explains
>> things well:
>> A weak mark both increases the amount of volunteer effort that goes
>> into dealing with infringement cases and makes bad outcomes more likely.
>> It is not an absolute requirement that Apache projects have defensible
>> names,
>> but painful past experience has taught us that mishandled branding can deal
>> surprising amounts of damage to a project community.
>> But beyond that, the issue of "Google Cloud Dataflow" vs. "Apache
>> Dataflow" is
>> a blocker.  One or the other will have to be renamed, and since the
>> software
>> is being donated but apparently not the brand, it sounds like renaming the
>> prospective Apache project will be required and you should add that task to
>> your roadmap.
>> Changing names in the middle of incubation is disruptive because it
>> requires
>> renaming infrastructure resources, impacting both the Apache Infrastructure
>> team and also the podling's developer and user communities.  My suggestion
>> would be that immediately after the VOTE to enter incubation concludes, you
>> only create a dev mailing list and deal with the renaming immediately,
>> delaying the creation of other resources until after the renaming is
>> resolved.
>> However, the exact plan is something you can work out with your Mentors.
>> Marvin Humphrey
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Jean-Baptiste Onofré
Talend -

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