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From Joe Schaefer <joes...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation
Date Thu, 05 Nov 2015 04:49:24 GMT
Just to contrast this with the IPMC itself, we discuss everything here,
including past decisions.
Almost everything that happens here is a community decision, and we try to
move with near
unanimous consent.  It is generally hard to figure out what roles people
have without some formal
VOTE where people indicate a binding status on it.

That is what you should aspire to on your dev list- it really shouldn't
matter what roles people have
unless we need to be looking at a release.



On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Joe Schaefer <joesuf4@gmail.com> wrote:

> This may sound a bit pedantic, but the "Sentry project" isn't capable of
> considering anything.
> Either you are referring to a decision of the committers or the PPMC or
> the community, all
> of which requires some discussion over time about any position being
> taken.  I would consider
> it unusual for the project participants to be unanimous on a situation
> like this or other related
> matters, and certainly opinions evolve over time.
>
> Nobody should put themselves in a position of speaking on behalf of the
> project.  That is why
> we have communication channels in the first place and generally refer to
> on list decisions.
> The individual positions of the participants should be reflected in any
> consensus-based decision
> making.  Not to say everything must be voted on, but collective decision
> making requires
> open communication, preferably on public channels.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:26 PM, Lenni Kuff <lskuff@cloudera.com> wrote:
>
>> I think there is some confusion here. The Sentry project has never
>> considered Committer == PMC. The recent website change was only to help
>> clarify the roles of each of the members of the project, it was not the
>> result of any decision being made.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lenni
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 3:03 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgoetz@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On Nov 4, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Lenni Kuff <lskuff@cloudera.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:05 AM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgoetz@gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Nov 4, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net>
wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> * I would invite folks with access to go to Sentry's private list
>> and
>> > >>> look over discussions about adding new contributors, and discussions
>> > >>> about the project in general.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I took a look.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> From a community growth perspective, I see them adding new
>> committers,
>> > >>> which is a good thing. What I don’t see is any discussion at
all
>> about
>> > >>> adding PPMC members, nor any discussion about why they chose to
go
>> the
>> > >>> Committer != PPMC route.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> In a thread related to the first new committer being added [1],
it
>> is
>> > >>> pointed out that the podling website stated that Sentry was
>> Committer
>> > ==
>> > >>> PMC, but that the new member vote was only for Committer. At that
>> point
>> > >> it
>> > >>> looks like the website was updated to reflect Committer != PMC.
From
>> > that
>> > >>> point on, all new member votes were for Committer only, and there
>> were
>> > no
>> > >>> discussions regarding adding new PMC members or promoting
>> committers to
>> > >> the
>> > >>> PMC role.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> What I find slightly disconcerting is that there doesn’t seem
to be
>> any
>> > >>> consideration or discussion around growing the PPMC and why that’s
>> > >>> important. Sure they have 20-odd PPMC members from the initial
>> > committers
>> > >>> list, so it would take a pretty large exodus to render the project
>> > unable
>> > >>> to function, but I don’t see anything to indicate that they
>> understand
>> > >> the
>> > >>> function and importance of growing the PPMC.
>> > >
>> > > Background: I am a Sentry community member.
>> > >
>> > > I would have to disagree with this. We have identified lack of new
>> PPMC
>> > > members as an issue and called out in our board reports. We are also
>> > > encouraging non-PPMC members to get involved in ways they can become
>> PPMC
>> > > members - for example, we have had non-PPMC members run two of the
>> last
>> > > Sentry releases. As mentioned earlier, it's not like there is no
>> progress
>> > > here, we have people who are very close (and I agree that we can do a
>> > > better job discussing this on or private@ list). We are  also
>> > encouraging
>> > > others in the community to step up, giving them opportunities, and
>> really
>> > > striving to build a community around the project.
>> >
>> > Fair enough.
>> >
>> > Can you point me to the discussion where the project decided to go with
>> > Committer != PMC over Committer == PMC?
>> >
>> > From an outsider's perspective, that decision just looks like a single
>> > commit, without any public discussion, which speaks to the concerns
>> others
>> > have raised about decisions being made in private.
>> >
>> > -Taylor
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

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