incubator-general mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Rich Bowen <>
Subject Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion
Date Wed, 04 Nov 2015 12:09:00 GMT
On Nov 4, 2015 12:54 AM, "Justin Erenkrantz" <> wrote:
> I will just note that I disagree with adding bureaucracy like this.

It's not bureaucracy. It's suggesting a tool by which a mentor might
measure a podling's progress. It answers the question "how can I tell if
they're ready." It also gives a better-than-gut-feeling way to communicate
to others that they're ready.

When a project is recommended to the board for graduation, most of the time
all we have to go on is a list of names and a vague description. It'd be
nice to have more. But this isn't a requirement or policy. It's just a

> We already require podlings to submit reports as frequently as
> monthly.  (Geode somehow had to report monthly for no discernible
> reason.)
> This further adds to the burden on being a mentor - probably to
> something like being a teacher enforcing a pedagogical structure on
> the podlings.  I don't think that is what we should be striving for.
> For the two podlings I currently mentor (Geode and HAWQ), I keep an
> eye on the mailing lists and try to ensure that any process questions
> that are raised are addressed.  In the early days of Geode, there was
> a bit of that - less so now as the community is finding its way.  HAWQ
> seems to be doing well - nothing surprising that I can tell so far.
> I believe in a "big tent" foundation - we should welcome new projects
> of any stripe.  If they fail within the Incubator to graduate, so be
> it.  But, that is separate from asking the mentors to somehow be
> "responsible" for the podlings.  I have an interest to see them
> succeed, but if it doesn't, *shrug* and we move on.  I don't see any
> value in adding more bureaucracy as it will further sap any motivation
> to truly "mentor" projects.  I view the mentor as someone that can be
> called upon, but doesn't necessarily require active involvement on a
> daily basis.  If I wanted that, I would be a committer to the project.
> Let's not confuse the two.
> My $.02.  -- justin
> On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Rich Bowen <> wrote:
> > Fellow mentors,
> >
> > There was a conversation at ApacheCon about the Incubator. I'll leave
it to
> > the other participants to champion the particular parts that they are
> > passionate about, but I was particularly concerned with mentor
> > disengagement, and suggestions for improving it.
> >
> > A mentor's role is to help a project learn the ropes at the ASF, and
> > mentor might not necessarily be deeply versed in the particular
> > that the podling works with. As such, it can frequently be the case
that the
> > mentor becomes disengaged from the daily conversation of the lists, and
> > eventually with the entire process.
> >
> > As a means of refocusing the mentors' efforts, and keeping them
engaged, I'd
> > like to encourage each mentor (or group of mentors) to consider writing
> > running report (ie, evolving, updated every quarter) based on
> >
> > where they evaluate each point on the maturity model, as a path towards
> > graduation. This gives a concrete target, and a lens through which to
> > the podling's progress towards that target.
> >
> > This could be kept in the incubator wiki, and linked from the official
> > project report, or it could be maintained just for your own benefit. I
> > it would be particularly useful to attach to a graduation
recommendation, as
> > a sign that the recommendation is more than just checking the various
> > but is a glowing endorsement of the project's readiness to be TLP.
> >
> > As a side-note, I'd also encourage mentors who are mentors in name
only, and
> > not reality, to consider cleaning up the paperwork by removing
> > from the roster. It doesn't look great when a podling can't get mentor
> > signoff on their reports.
> >
> > --
> > Rich Bowen - - @rbowen
> > - @apachecon
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> For additional commands, e-mail:

  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message