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From Andrew Purtell <>
Subject Re: RTC vs CTR (was: Concerning Sentry...)
Date Wed, 25 Nov 2015 18:44:06 GMT
Most of the Hadoop ecosystem uses RTC. I can't speak to other projects but
on the one I chair there's no conspiracy to exclude anyone.

I chair Bigtop. We recently tested a switch to CTR. It went very well and
so we just wrapped up a vote to make it the permanent state of affairs. I
think this is the best option for Bigtop, which has a small but active
group of committers each working in loosely coupled ways on different parts
of the tree. I also chair HBase. We were spun out of Hadoop direct to TLP
and inherited the RTC ethic from our parent community. I did recently test
the state of consensus on RTC vs CTR there and it still holds. I think this
model makes sense for HBase, which is a mature (read: complex) code base
that implements a distributed database. For sure we want multiple sets of
eyes on changes there. They can have unexpected consequences. Almost above
all, we want to do due diligence on not introducing bugs that lose user

So, to each their own? Please.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 2:05 PM, Ralph Goers <>

> Yes, it would be good to take a survey.  Interestingly, I wasn’t aware
> that ANY Apache projects used RTC until I became involved with a project in
> the Hadoop ecosystem, which seems to align with Tood’s statement since all
> the projects he is listed as being involved in are part of that.  In fact,
> when I was mentoring the project I am familiar with I asked during
> incubation why they wanted to use RTC and was told that it was because that
> is the way all Hadoop related projects worked. Since most of the committers
> were paid to work on the project by their employer I also got the feeling
> that it aligned with that.
> Ralph
> > On Nov 22, 2015, at 1:18 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 11:12PM, Todd Lipcon wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Emmanuel Lécharny <
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Except that there seems to be great disagreement among the Members as
> to
> >>>> whether RTC is somehow anti-Apache-Way.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you want to try to create an ASF-wide resolution that RTC doesn't
> >>> follow
> >>>> the Apache Way, and get the board/membership to vote on it, go ahead,
> but
> >>>> it confuses podlings who are new to the ASF when people espouse
> personal
> >>>> opinions as if they are ASF rules.
> >>>
> >>> That is not the point.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The question is not to decide if C-T-R is The Apache Way over R-T-C.
> The
> >>> question is wether a project entering incubation with a selected R-T-C
> >>> mode is likely to exit incubation for the simple reason it will be very
> >>> hard for this project to grow its community due to this choice. It's
> >>> like starting a 100m race with a 20kb backpack on your shoulder...
> >>>
> >>
> >> If you have any statistics that show this to be the case, I'd be very
> >> interested. RTC is the norm in basically every Apache project I've been
> a
> >> part of, many of which have thriving communities and are generally
> regarded
> >> as successful software projects.
> >
> > Do you have any statistics on that, Todd? Would be very interesting to
> see,
> > indeed.
> >
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Best regards,

   - Andy

Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
(via Tom White)

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