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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject RE: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation
Date Sun, 15 Nov 2015 18:46:57 GMT
Dennis makes a good point.

Some to ago it became common to think of the diversity objective to become a minimum number
of contributors from different orgs rather than an acceptance of new contributors views.

Now we require a behavior pattern likely to lead to diversity.

One is quantative (bad, as it does nit take everything into account) one is subjective (good,
but open to abuse).

To have the good we merely need to trust the people involved. Providing guidelines is good.
Having those guidelines become rules is bad.

Sent from my Windows Phone
From: Dennis E. Hamilton<>
Sent: ‎11/‎15/‎2015 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

I think the Maturity Model, relied on as some guidelines for assessing a project, needs to
be applied for that purpose in terms of identifying the striving-fors.  Is there evidence
that particular areas are being strived for.  Is there evidence of an anti-pattern.  How do
these net out in the considered judgment of the person making that assessment, what facts
are indicators, warning-signs, etc.

It is my understanding that this is not a pure pass/fail thing.  A graduation could be accompanied
by a charge to develop/diminish/whatever in the activities of the newly-established PMC and
having that accounted for.

Isn't this an always "on balance" determination, where in some cases, demonstration of remedy
is required before graduation and other times not?  (With some items being show-stoppers,
I suppose, such as careless handling of IP clearance.)

 - Dennis

> -----Original Message-----
> From: []
> On Behalf Of Justin Erenkrantz
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 07:14
> To:
> Subject: Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and
> graduation
> On Saturday, November 14, 2015, Rich Bowen <> wrote:
> > No. I can use whatever criteria I like to justify my vote on a
> podlings
> > graduation, if it's in line with asf philosophy. This document is,
> and
> > accurately reflects the criteria I use when voting on a graduation.
> That
> > is, the document reflects me, not vice versa, as I said above.
> >
> > It's very akin to the docs that circulate around member election time.
> They
> > are useful guidelines but nobody is compelled to adhere to any
> particular
> > one of them.
> >
> The difference is that member elections are majority-based - graduation
> votes are essentially subject to veto.
> There's a huge difference there.  If you are subjecting all of your
> votes
> to that checklist and will actively block podlings that do not meet your
> personal guidelines, you are making everyone else subject to it.  --
> justin

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