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From Rich Bowen <>
Subject Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation
Date Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:46:17 GMT

On 11/11/2015 12:24 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> On 11/10/15, 12:31 PM, "Steve Loughran" <> wrote:
>> >* In any project where a significant number of the team members are
>> >expected to ship something in approximate correlation with a release
>> >schedule imposed by product management, project development decisions are
>> >going to follow. Similarly, priorities for weekday work by those
>> >engineers is going to be made by other people. This not only constrains
>> >what goes in, but providers a motivator for keeping things out if they're
>> >felt to be too risky.
> I found this interesting.  Do lots of Apache projects have a schedule and
> project manager?  I thought that wasn’t really the “Apache Way”.  I
> thought committers could commit what they wanted with minimal coordination
> amongst themselves without some other person being the gate keeper.  Seems
> like that would scare away new committers who just want to scratch their
> own itch.

In The Old Days, everybody (for certain values of "everybody") worked on
Apache projects in their spare time. It's useful to explicitly
acknowledge that this is no longer the case. These days everybody (for
certain values of "everybody") works on Apache projects as part of their
day job. This varies in true-ness from project to project, of course. It
appears to be the case that on httpd, for example, everybody still does
this in their hobby time. It appears to be the case on most of our other
projects however, that Apache work is something that folks are paid to do.

Consequently, many of our developers answer to two masters - their work
boss, who may or may not lean on them to implement certain things, and
the project community and/or their own interests.

All of that to say, sure, many of our projects have various project
managers that are directing them, and our job, at the Foundation, is to
ensure that the community has a louder voice than the individual project
managers at $Company.

Perhaps things were simpler in The Old Days, or perhaps I was just more
naive. I suspect it's a little of both.

Maintaining the ideals of The Apache Way, while also acknowledging that
the world is different from how it was in 1998, is a core theme in many
discussion we have these days on various ASF mailing lists.

Rich Bowen - - @rbowen - @apachecon

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