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From Andy Seaborne <a...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion
Date Wed, 14 Oct 2015 21:01:25 GMT
On 14/10/15 16:21, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Further to Sam's suggestion and observations below see
>
> Suggestion 0.1.8 at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IncubatorIssues2013#Suggestions

(Summary: Champion => PPMC chair)

I agree with the comments that champion-as-chair is a negative to the 
community self-goverance.

Some kind of phased transition seems better, running down the process 
commitments of mentors as the community ramps up.

"Champion" => "lead mentor" and the incoming community nominates one of 
their own as "community point of contact" or "community lead".

"Community lead" picks up responsibilities like reporting (usually in 
the 3 months phase??) and is there to make sure sufficient mentors are 
active enough.

	Andy

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sa3ruby@gmail.com [mailto:sa3ruby@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Sam Ruby
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 7:26 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:46 AM, Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My point is that with 1 mentor, everyone knows where the buck stops.
>>> With >1 nobody knows. A flat hierarchy for mentors does not seem
>>> workable or, at least, optimal.
>>>
>>
>> That's a fine point.
>>
>> But it is counter to my experience.
>>
>> For instance, on Kylin, I was extremely active early on. Lately,
>> Julian Hyde has taken much more of the questions.  It has worked very
>> well.  We have a third mentor (whose name I won't mention) who has
>> been nearly completely missing, but that hasn't been a problem since
>> everybody knows that they are totally MiA.
>>
>>
>>> If we wish to address this, and not "force" mentors to leave, we
>>> could simply add the idea of "lead mentor" and have the PPMC vote on
>>> which mentor they want to be the lead mentor (pseudo PPMC chair); the
>>> remaining mentors would remain as co-mentors but the intent is that
>>> the lead mentor would be the primary person responsible.
>>>
>>
>> I think that this is largely process without clear need. But others
>> may have different experience.
>
> The following is from the definition of "champion" on the incubator roles and responsibility
page[1]:
>
> ---
> During incubation, the Champion:
>
>   * Coordinates the creation and timely delivery of the podling's board reports.
>   * Keeps an eye on the mentors' activity and takes action (ask for new mentors, talk
to the Incubator PMC) if they don't seem to provide enough oversight or mentorship to the
podling,
> ---
>
> First question: does this description match current practice.  Second
> question: is there something in that description that needs to get done, but isn't getting
done?
>
> There also is a separate thread about the number of podlings that the Incubator can handle.
 That number would tend to increase if some of the work were decentralized more.
>
> My take is that (at least for this month) Marvin is effectively doing the first bullet
for all podlings.  Now I don't see any signs of burnout in Marvin, so that's not the immediate
concern, but scalability and sustainability would benefit from decentralizing this more.
>
> As to the second bullet, it isn't clear to me that that is being done.
> Even if it were only a one time thing, reverifying (or in many cases,
> naming) the champion for every podling, and then asking each to reverify the active status
for every mentor for podlings that they champion might go a long way toward easing some of
the concerns that people have raised.
>
> Ultimately the definition of champion, as posted, should match reality.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> [1] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fincubator.apache.org%2fincubation%2fRoles_and_Responsibilities.html%23Champion&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c02e20d0e08f54f9c81f408d2d4a356cc%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=q10OQ8l3N4%2bAPk%2bXJYxZVF1mEREPIOYNpQcD9Frr0rI%3d
>
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