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From Daniel Gruno <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Mentor neutrality policy
Date Fri, 09 Oct 2015 18:36:11 GMT
Does there always have to be an actual problem before we can propose a
policy? must we always be reactive instead of proactive?

Yes, I am in a way implying that some mentors are, perhaps, not neutral
in their work. I will not back it up with specific names or contexts, as
I don't want to take a trip to lawsuit town for things I cannot back up
with publicly available information.

I don't find this to be uncivil accusations - can you outline a specific
segment that you find uncivil? I am proposing a set of basic rules -
which is naturally up for discussion and improvement - that would
potentially alleviate us from having some nasty discussions - whether
they be public or private - about the neutrality and honesty of
recommendations, and hopefully ensure we have a more leveled playing
field in the incubator.

I'll stop here, as my eyesight is playing a trick on me today and not
allowing me to see what I type.

With regards,

On 10/09/2015 08:03 PM, Chris Douglas wrote:
> What problem does this solve?
> This proposal lacks context. It implies that mentors are not neutral,
> and that they are motivated by interests not shared by the ASF. But it
> does not outline the merits of that belief, neither does it specify
> how this proposal would address them. Instead of allowing those
> definitions to float, this discussion would be more productive if it
> were about some concrete problems for which there is evidence. Yet
> another thread of rude responses to uncivil accusations is
> unproductive, even if it is an IPMC tradition. -C
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Daniel Gruno <> wrote:
>> Hi Incubator folks,
>> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for
>> incubating podlings:
>> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its incubation
>> status.
>> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, graduating or
>> dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general Apache mission
>> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the code
>> (company or original project community)
>> Furthermore, I would like to see this extended to votes on graduating or
>> retiring podlings, so that only people with no organizational (aparty
>> from the ASF) or financial ties to the project (or the companies behind
>> it) can cast a binding vote on graduation or retirement.
>> This would essentially mean:
>> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) that is
>> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote
>> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement.
>> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you cannot
>> mentor it nor vote for/against it.
>> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole mission is
>> to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind.
>> Please do discuss this. If there is (mostly) positive feedback, I would
>> like to, at some point, have a vote on including this in the Incubator
>> policy. I realize this would cut down on the number of potential
>> mentors, and I would ask that more people step up to the challenge of
>> mentoring if adopted.
>> With regards,
>> Daniel
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