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From Arvind Prabhakar <arv...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)
Date Mon, 03 Aug 2015 23:06:02 GMT
On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Andrew Purtell <apurtell@apache.org> wrote:

> >
> ​
> In fact, in my opinion it leads to the very unfortunate side effect of IPMC
> ​> ​
> feeling in need to justify why it exists by micromanaging podlings.
>
> I've been through incubation as a mentor on Phoenix, Nifi, and now getting
> up to speed on Trafodion, I have not seen micromanagement of podlings.
> Could you point out an example? Curious what you mean.
>

It is worth noting that none of the IPMC members micromanage on purpose, or
are even aware that their actions are being interpreted as acts of
micromanagement. From their perspective, it is their responsibility to
guide the podling, and that is what they are trying to do. It will unfair
to bring those out as examples of micromanagement.

That said, I have personally been in positions where I have seen IPMC
members ask - and even demand things at times - that I feel are
unreasonable requests for the podling. The reason I do not challenge those
is because I feel that their asks are rooted in good intentions, and that
the IPMC in its current form encourages such involvement and authority. At
the same time I also worry about the state of the podling and what this
does to their way of thinking about Apache and the Incubator.

Regards,
Arvind Prabhakar


>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 7:18 PM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > I wonder how much of the silence is a notion of "I don't want to be
> > > accountable if something goes wrong in this podling."
> >
> > Right, but that same concern could be applied to every single TLP
> > and yet the board seems to do the right thing with that.
> >
> > > Having the IPMC safety net means its at least the IPMC's fault if
> > something
> > > goes wrong.
> >
> > My point all along has been that this is a false sense of security.
> > ​​
> > In fact,
> > in my opinion it leads to the very unfortunate side effect of IPMC
> > feeling in need to justify why it exists by micromanaging podlings.
> >
> > > Personally, I'd be happy if the PPMCs had more self governance.  But I
> > > think there are also some key people on the IPMC that should be able to
> > > lend their skills out to the broader PPMCs in case of need.
> >
> > Which would be totally fine and gets us back to the point Daniel and I
> were
> > discussing: a release compliance team (horrible name, I know) as part of
> > ASF.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
>    - Andy
>
> Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein
> (via Tom White)
>

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