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From Ross Gardler <Ross.Gard...@microsoft.com>
Subject RE: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)
Date Tue, 04 Aug 2015 16:23:11 GMT
Since I +1d Romans comment I also want to draw attention to your valuable observation on the
topic:

"A lot of companies seem to view any friction (e.g. "actually complying
with policies that put community over code") as "political overhead"
that makes joining the foundation undesirable. "

+1 to that also.

I think it becomes a problem when people come out of the woodwork at a critical point in a
puddings
Podlings lifecycle (e.g. Releases, graduation) with minutia and/or an on the fly reinterpretation
of policy.

It's hard to get the balance right between appropriate oversight and unwanted meddling.

Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Joe Brockmeier<mailto:jzb@zonker.net>
Sent: ‎8/‎4/‎2015 9:16 AM
To: general@incubator.apache.org<mailto:general@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)

On Mon, Aug 3, 2015, at 03:13 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:44 AM, Joe Brockmeier <jzb@zonker.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 2, 2015, at 10:05 PM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> >> I've been waiting for a bout a week for other to chime in, but
> >> it seems that nobody has so I'll repeat my question as of
> >> a week ago: what would be the effective way to change the
> >> status quo around IPMC an make it more board like?
> >>
> >> Perhaps we can start from making the release policy actually
> >> make sense along the lines that Ross has outlined. I guess
> >> I can propose a change to the current policies (or to Ross'
> >> point just get it back from the wayback machine :-)).
> >>
> >> But seriously, who else thinks the movement towards empowering
> >> PPMCs and making IPMC very much like the board makes sense?
> >
> > I think the thread fizzled because there's not a lot of support for the
> > idea. At least, on my end, I'm not in favor.
>
> Yup. I believe this to be an unfortunate (at least from my standpoint)
> but and extremely fair observation.
>
> As far as I'm concerned the issue of R&Rs of IPMC is in a state of a
> stalemate right now. We clearly have a "everything's fine lets just
> add more policy" constituency vs. "IPMC should be small and more
> board like" crowd.

If I had to identify one problem that the IPMC/Incubator suffers from at
the moment it would not be a need for a "small and more board like"
structure. The biggest problem (and perhaps I view it this way because
I'm suffering from it / am part of the problem) is a lack of time /
attention from mentors. I'm really not sure that the proposal here
solves that in any meaningful way.

> The good news is that we're all united on making sure that the foundation
> is growing by podlings making progress and graduating to TLPs. The
> bad news is that because of the current mentality I don't see the types
> of unfortunate threads that Ignite just went through going away anytime
> soon.

What about the Ignite thread was "unfortunate"? That it was a bit heated
at times, or just the fact that there was disagreement?

I fear that there's too much bias towards +1'ing things even when folks
have legitimate concerns.

> This is that proverbial "political overhead" that a lot of folks are
> accusing ASF of and cite as a reason of not going into the foundation. Which is
> grossly unfair at the board level, but unfortunately seems to be very
> true at IPMC level today.

A lot of companies seem to view any friction (e.g. "actually complying
with policies that put community over code") as "political overhead"
that makes joining the foundation undesirable.

Best,

jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/

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