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From Daniel Gruno <>
Subject Re: Reform of Incubator {was; [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator)
Date Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:36:17 GMT

On 2015-07-27 01:20, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> I'd like to raise a somewhat orthogonal point. Mainly the fact that our
> obsession with doing good work with podlings could, very well, be
> obscuring a much more important issues. And given how limited
> our resources of eyeballs looking at releases are -- we need to
> be practical.
> Now, while I couldn't agree more that IP hygiene of releases is one of
> the corner  stones of what makes ASF what it is, I have to be realistic in
> accepting the fact that once podling is out of the incubation and becomes a TLP
> the level of external scrutiny drops by 90% and all bets are off. Some TLPs
> do great releases. Some do really poor ones. Sometimes ppl notify the board.
> Once again, I can't be happier that there are folks like Justin who spend
> an enormous amount of their personal time helping to vet releases of
> podlings. I only ask: should his (and guys like him) time be better applied
> to helping foundation make sure that our TLPs are doing what they are
> supposed to do as well?
I too am very delighted that we have volunteers who are both willing and 
able to help us through these somewhat dry and dusty areas of releasing 
software. I believe our time is better spent if we educate new podlings 
on proper release and IP procedures, so as to prevent these things from 
happening later on when they are released into the apache wilds with the 
273 other projects, and as such, I think it's better to have these 
checks (and the people doing the checks) in the incubator. Having said 
that, I do realize this puts a lot of pressure on very few people, and 
the asynchronicity of going back and forth between podling and incubator 
is not the optimal way. But I believe this is something the incubator 
needs to teach podlings.

What if, for example, we were to come up with a more automated and 
educational system for this, so as to get it faster through the human 
control? We already have Rat that does most of this, so couldn't we make 
a "super rat" that does a bit more, specifically designed to educate the 
incubating podlings, maybe a web interface where you just throw a 
tarball at it and it'll tell you what needs to be improved.

Sure, it would have a significant cost in people hours at first, but if 
the Incubator is going to be around for another decade or more, it would 
definitely pay off in the end and make initial releases faster.

I'd be happy to collaborate with others on this, if there is an interest 
in giving it a go.

With regards,

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