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From Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:26:45 GMT


On 2015-07-22 01:17, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno <humbedooh@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Nitpicking time.
>>
>> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
>> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
>> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
>> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
>> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
>> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
>> Ignite releases."
>>
>> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
>> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
>> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).
>
> Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
> their community editions for Apache Ignite.

Excellent!

>
> You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's
>> either or.
>
> We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very confusing
> to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.
>
> I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of anything
> other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
> endorsing this edition.
Thanks :)
I still find it a bit problematic that the text infers that GridGain's 
3rd party binary is somehow "potentially upstream" from Apache Ignite, 
but I will defer to Shane to decide whether that is allowed or not.

>
>> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
>> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
>> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
>> project whatsoever.
>>
> Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or another.
> All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
> affiliation.

To be clear, I am not about to veto a graduation vote because of company 
affiliations, I just don't think it belongs on the page.
If/when you graduate, the PMC has every right to decide this for 
themselves, I believe.

>
>> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
>> this is also not acceptable.
>>
> This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
> GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.
>
> I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
> you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?

http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/datagrid.html
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/igniterdd.html
etc.
I think you should just grep for it in your features directory, there 
may be more pages that refer to it.

With regards,
Daniel
>
>
>> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
>> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>>> meritocratic community."?
>>>
>>> I think not.
>>>
>>>
>>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>>> nowhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>> and
>>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>> intended
>>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>> to
>>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>> for a
>>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>> in
>>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>> want
>>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [quote]
>>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF.  There is a behavior
>>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is
a
>>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here.  IOW, it would
>>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>    Cos
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
>> organisation
>>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>>> independece?
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set
to " the
>>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and  I'm wrong in understanding
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community
established
>>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor
of proposing
>>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>     12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>>     13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>>     14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal
to establish a
>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate
a vote.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite
PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to
be in the best
>>>>>>>>>>      interests of the Foundation and consistent with
the
>>>>>>>>>>      Foundation's purpose to establish a Project
Management
>>>>>>>>>>      Committee charged with the creation and maintenance
of
>>>>>>>>>>      open-source software, for distribution at no
charge to
>>>>>>>>>>      the public, related to the automated and managed
flow of
>>>>>>>>>>      information between systems.
>>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
>> high-performance,
>>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing
and
>>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>>>   --------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project
Management
>>>>>>>>>>      Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache
Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>>>      be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws
of the
>>>>>>>>>>      Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be
and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>>      responsible for the creation and maintenance
of software
>>>>>>>>>>      related to the automated and managed flow of
information
>>>>>>>>>>      between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President,
Apache Ignite"
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>      and hereby is created, the person holding such
office to
>>>>>>>>>>      serve at the direction of the Board of Directors
as the chair
>>>>>>>>>>      of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>      for management of the projects within the scope
of
>>>>>>>>>>      responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project;
and be it
>>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>>      RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately
below be and
>>>>>>>>>>      hereby are appointed to serve as the initial
members of the
>>>>>>>>>>      Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>      Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>>>      Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office
of Vice
>>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>>>      Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and
subject to the
>>>>>>>>>>      direction of the Board of Directors and the
Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>>      Foundation until death, resignation, retirement,
removal or
>>>>>>>>>>      disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>>>      and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC
be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>>      tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws
intended to
>>>>>>>>>>      encourage open development and increased participation
in the
>>>>>>>>>>      Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be
and hereby
>>>>>>>>>>      is tasked with the migration and rationalization
of the
>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>      Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>      RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining
to the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>      Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the
Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>>>      Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
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>>
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