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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: [POLL] Using this list to discuss pTLP proposals, ok?
Date Sun, 22 Mar 2015 16:32:05 GMT
On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH)
<> wrote:
> My only concern is confusion over pTLP and incubator. That's a manageable
> concern but this lost is so large I fear it might keep recurring.
> Just a word of caution, not an objection.

I agree that this is a concern.  I also think it's important to give pTLP
advocates enough space to pursue their inititative independently.

However, I think that the recent practice of discussing project proposals on
board@apache, a private list, is highly problematic and a disaster waiting to
happen.  While our nine Directors may ultimately make the decision whether or
not to pass a specific resolution creating a pTLP, the establishment of an
Apache project is an event with many stakeholders:

*   Existing developers and users for a project considering a move to Apache
*   Contributors to competing or related projects
*   Commercial interests
*   Press
*   Anyone who takes an interest in the direction of the Foundation

Our Board operates with remarkable transparency to the Membership[1], but not
to the wider world.  Project proposal discussions need to be visible to the
general public -- people need to have their say, and the discussions need to
be made available in public archives where they may be perused later and
linked, informing future conversations both inside and outside Apache.

My preference would be to ask pTLP advocates "which public list" they want to
use.  Creating a new public mailing list is an option, though the low
visibility of a new list makes such an option less than ideal and the usual
arguments against Yet Another Mailing List apply.  As far as I am concerned,
they would be welcome to use general@incubator if that's their choice.  Maybe
dev@community would be OK though I would be surprised if the ComDev PMC were

Marvin Humphrey

[1] For those not familiar with the Foundation's structure: there are a few
    hundred Members who are effectively Apache's shareholders and who elect
    the Board annually:
    The Board conducts most of its business on board@apache, an internal list
    to which Members and Officers may subscribe.

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