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From sebb <>
Subject Re: Incubator report sign-off
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2014 20:34:17 GMT
On 23 December 2014 at 16:43, Alex Harui <> wrote:
> On 12/22/14, 11:54 PM, "Niclas Hedhman" <> wrote:
>>On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:
>>>While Provisional TLP proposals are tested, I would favor;
>>   a. single mentor, the "always present person" who is "first person to
>>ask" and "with enough karma", the friendly neighborhood convenience store,
>>the oracle of Delphi. I would even like to see him/her be the first PMC
>>Chair on graduation, to raise the expectation of responsibility.
> Flex had three great mentors, but to expect them to be the PMC Chair on
> graduation would have been problematic.  They were great mentors because
> they had lots of experience from their work on other Apache projects, and
> thus didn’t have time to stay active on a new TLP, plus they really
> weren’t users or developers of the technology, just our coaches on the
> Apache Way, and thus wouldn’t be good Chair candidates as they weren’t as
> invested in the technology.  But they did stick around on at least the
> private@ lists and continue to do so even 2 years after graduation where
> we consult them on occasion.  To require that a mentor be an active
> contributor limits the kinds of technologies that can come to Apache to
> only those who can interest someone with a lot of spare cycles.
> IMO, the mentors job is to teach, not to lead.

The job of the PMC chair is almost entirely administrative.
They are the link between the board and the PMC and their main role is
to ensure the board gets timely reports and to feed back comments from
the board.

If a PMC is relying on the chair to drive it forward technically, then
I think something has gone wrong with the PMC.

> Also, IMO, this topic of inactive mentors seems to be too “parent”
> oriented, maybe because when we use the word “incubator” we think of
> babies.  IMO, any worthy podling shouldn’t have a PPMC of babies, it
> should have a PPMC of adults committed to success, and those adults should
> be equally responsible for their graduation.  What would have been helpful
> for me to know upon entry to the incubator was truly what the mentor MUST
> do and what they SHOULD do and what to do if they didn’t.  If I knew that
> I needed more than one mentor to sign the IPMC report, I would have bugged
> them if they didn’t and asked for help on general@ if they didn’t respond.
>  No need for shepherds, you would have heard from me.  Maybe the incubator
> should be renamed “Apache University” or “Apache Training Program”.
> Any rules on some minimum bar of mentor activity is probably doomed to
> failure.  A podling full of experienced Apache folks will need a lot less
> mentoring than one full of folks new to Apache.  That’s why I think the
> most important message for the mentors to deliver to a new PPMC is that
> they are responsible for their graduation, the mentor is just a coach, how
> to work with the mentors, and what to do if the mentors can’t be found.
> -Alex

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