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From Ted Dunning <>
Subject Re: P. An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2014 22:25:18 GMT
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Tim Williams <> wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
> > I was wondering... What we *REALLY* want are projects
> > that are interested more in The Apache Way than in the
> > Apache Brand. We need to make it more clear, somehow,
> > that new projects want to enter the ASF because they
> > approve of, and want to follow, the *how* of creating
> > projects and communities. Lately, it appears, that we
> > have graduated projects which are more interested in
> > simply being able to add 'Apache' to their name, and
> > then deride/minimize/ignore/dispute most/all of the
> > aspects of The Apache Way which is what made the Apache
> > brand so valuable and noteworthy.
> >
> > Maybe we need to change the proposal guide.
> This wasn't well-received 4.5 years ago[1] :/  I still think it's a
> more valuable question than the "brand" one - which is likely what
> brought them here in the first place.  Good luck...

One comment from that older thread is that this is more of a
mentor/champion question than a podling question because the incoming
project is not so likely to even know enough to answer the Apache Way
question intelligently.

With a recent project proposal, I spent a week editing a shared document
containing the proposal with the project leaders.  The goal was to help
them understand where incubation was going to take them and what was really
important about the proposal.

I think that the time was well spent, but one of the three mentors was
total AWOL during this process.  Being absent during crucial discussions
like that really says I-don't-care more than almost anything else I can
think of.  With just a little bit of that, the new project is likely to
assume that they don't care about what Apache says either.

Of course, it isn't politic to ask a high profile mentor to recuse
themselves for lack of helping.  So we wind up with mentors in name only
who like to get their names on projects but never both even to read the
project reports much less actually do any mentoring.

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