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From Marvin Humphrey <>
Subject Re: Running an experiment with pTLP
Date Tue, 30 Dec 2014 16:03:12 GMT
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980)
<> wrote:
> The structure would still be there - my hypothesis is that the
> mentors + the board will both uplift structure, and help to identify
> (more quickly) situations like no report, lack of mentors, etc.

I am skeptical that Apache policies will be applied evenly under such a
regime.  For example, release candidates routinely make it to the full IPMC
vote with binary dependencies embedded in source.  Regardless of intent,
removing final review by the wider IPMC will have the effect of liberalizing
the policy on bundled binary dependencies for those pTLPs who do not count any
sticklers among their Mentors.

Rather than change effective release policy for a minority through
administrative laxity, the Board should grapple with the full implications of
changing it explicitly for everyone.  (Yes, that will turn a huge, gory fight
considering liability, etc.)

Atomizing the IPMC will also yield inconsistency in other areas where there is
either confusion or honest disagreement among the Membership as to what our
policies are, such as provenance documentation requirements for contributions
arriving via Github, or whether PMC chairs are "special".

Nevertheless, +1 to move forward with the "pTLP experiment" (whatever that
means).  Odds are that any given pTLP will work out OK, especially if they
land one of our better Mentors.  But when one messes up, maybe we'll get a
clarifying post-mortem with the Board in the hot seat and the Incubator
unavailable as a convenient scapegoat.

No matter how much progress the Incubator makes, people will continue to hate
on it because it's a teacher and front-line enforcer of contentious and
frustratingly complex Foundation policies.  I'm not sure that's a solvable
problem, because it seems that The Apache Way inherently produces sprawling,
incoherent policy and policy documentation.

Marvin Humphrey

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