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From Hadrian Zbarcea <>
Subject Re: [Proposal] TinkerPop: A Graph Computing Framework
Date Thu, 18 Dec 2014 18:04:39 GMT
A tad longer answer is that the immutable rules are meant to protect the 
Apache Way, because we believe that healthy communities produce health 
code. The ASF is a steward of communities that are themselves stewards 
of code. The incubation process is meant to benefit the project, allow 
new committers to get familiar with the social and legal 
responsibilities associated with public releases, code governance, IP, 
licensing, etc. Your case is slightly different because you're 
experienced already with most of these aspects.

The champion and mentors are there to help you through the process. They 
are volunteers who work to become eventually useless, at which point the 
project graduates out of the incubator.

I hope this (and the links below) help(s),


On 12/18/2014 11:48 AM, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) wrote:
> Marko,
> I note that you currently do not have a champion and that you have listed IBM as the
sponsor, with two individuals names who (to the best of my knowledge) are not ASF committers.
I suggest these are the first things you need to address in your proposal. Find a champion
who can help you understand what the Apache Way is and why IBM is not a sponsor (Sam is certainly
an excellent candidate to help you with that if he is willing).
> To your specific points below, since Sam has already responded to your points, I'll keep
my response short. Moving your primary project resources to the ASF is not a negotiable item.
There are many reasons for this. Your champion is responsible for ensuring you understand
the reasoning behind this.
> When a project comes to the ASF it comes for the Apache Way. That means projects that
choose to come here need to adopt the Apache Way in its entirety, not "just enough" to be
an Apache project.
> That being said, there are very few immutable rules in the Apache Way, much of it is
social structure an practices. But there are a few things that are designed to protect that
social structure, this a non-negotiable (at least outside of the ASF membership who, over
time, tweak the rules).
> Ross
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marko Rodriguez []
> Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 8:16 AM
> To:;
> Cc: Sam Ruby
> Subject: Re: [Proposal] TinkerPop: A Graph Computing Framework
> Hello Jake,
> When talking with Sam Ruby (cc:d) we voiced our concerns about moving all of our infrastructure
over to The Apache Foundation. In particular, our GitHub presence and our public user-mailing
list (i.e. tech support mailing list). I have articulated our concerns in the freshly updated
> 		Please see "W. Mailing Lists", "Y. Git Repository", and "X. Subversion Directory".
> Sam Ruby had stated that using GitHub for source control is an accepted practice now.
We can (though would prefer not to) move our issue tracking to JIRA. Again, we have all been
using GitHub issue tracking for 5 years and are comfortable with its interface. Likewise,
we can (though would prefer not to), move our user mailing list to Apache's mail list system.
If a distinction is made between "user mailing list" (tech support) and "contributor mailing
list" (governance), we can (and would prefer) to move over our "TinkerPop Contributors" mailing
list to ASF as this is where all the legal/political/governance discussion occur and should
be under the purview of ASF.
> Thoughts?,
> Marko.
> On Dec 17, 2014, at 7:42 PM, Jake Farrell <> wrote:
>> Hey Marko
>> Thank you for posting the proposal to the wiki. The proposal has the
>> requested infra for issues, wiki, mailing lists, and scm all still at
>> github. These sections will have to be edited to bring everything over
>> to ASF hardware. Please take a look at other proposals listed for an
>> idea and if you have any questions please let us know
>> Thanks
>> -Jake
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Marko Rodriguez
>> <>
>> wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> I have put the proposal on the wiki page.
>>> As requested by Roman, I updated the Affiliations section. Note that
>>> I would love to tweak more but there is a 1 minute turn around time
>>> when I hit 'preview' or 'save changes' on the wiki. It started
>>> driving me mad so I stopped.
>>> Please advise on desired edits and I will do so. Moreover, I will
>>> make things much cleaner once the wiki interface speeds up (hopefully
>>> its just a 'burp' in the software right now).
>>> Finally, I will review the individuals who noted they would like to
>>> "champion" or "mentor" TinkerPop. I will read more about them, what
>>> these roles are, and provide thoughts to this thread once I fully
>>> grasp the situation.
>>> Thank you again,
>>> Marko.
>>> On Dec 17, 2014, at 5:25 PM, Henry Saputra <>
>>> wrote:
>>>> No way, Marko! This is AWESOME!!
>>>> As many people had mentioned before, you need Champion who is Apache
>>> member and mentors who are member of Incubator PMCs.
>>>> And please do follow the format of the proposal as Hadrian mentioned
>>>> in
>>> his reply.
>>>> So excited!
>>>> - Henry
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