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From Louis Suárez-Potts <>
Subject Re: P. An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand
Date Tue, 23 Dec 2014 18:59:34 GMT

> On 23 Dec 2014, at 13:53, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:
> tl;dr; agree with a problem statement, don't think
> that proposal wording has much to do with solving
> the problem, would love to see mentors do more.
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
>> I was wondering... What we *REALLY* want are projects
>> that are interested more in The Apache Way than in the
>> Apache Brand. We need to make it more clear, somehow,
>> that new projects want to enter the ASF because they
>> approve of, and want to follow, the *how* of creating
>> projects and communities.
> A very strong +1 to that.
>> Lately, it appears, that we
>> have graduated projects which are more interested in
>> simply being able to add 'Apache' to their name, and
>> then deride/minimize/ignore/dispute most/all of the
>> aspects of The Apache Way which is what made the Apache
>> brand so valuable and noteworthy.
>> Maybe we need to change the proposal guide.
> Fine-tuning proposal guide would be helpful ("patches"
> are always welcome).
> That said, I *really* don't think it would have any impact
> on the problem stated above. The real answer lies in
> mentors/champions who are diligent about guiding
> poddlings towards true understanding of the Apache Way.
> There's a separate thread on how to make mentors
> more accountable.
> IOW, if we want a change in poddling behavior, I'd rather
> focus on incubation/graduation process rather than
> entrance criteria.
> Thanks,
> Roman.

Roman, et al.,
I tend to agree with your assessment tho am unsure what is meant by “accountable”; sounds

Thus: I have found mentors in projects and advocate, again, a (mild) cooperative system of
obligation upon commit status. But I also want to do something I’ve wanted to do for some
time and focus on disarticulating the *way* of open source production from the *thing* being
made, i.e., the code. 

This is not that radical a notion, at least not in other fields. Modes of cooperative collaboration
have been taught many places. Formally, it can exist, I bet, away from the object being made.
And it may—may, alas—may make it easier to get mentors, once it is seen that being a mentor
is not a pit of lost time.

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