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From Louis Suárez-Potts <>
Subject Process over Ego [Was: Re: Incubator report sign-off
Date Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:45:39 GMT
Ross, et al.,
Note the change in subject.

I think that one crucial fact about Apache that I love and respect is its regard for process
over ego. It can be dull and unless one rather likes, or at least understands the value of,
bureaucratic processes, can be frustrating, especially to those in love with swift and ego-driven
acts. But process does not depend on individuals and is not a form suited to benevolent dictators.
It’s also not a panacea for community. But it can lead to a lasting and productive one.


> On 29 Dec 2014, at 14:46, Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <>
> In Apache there is no such thing as a "Project Leader"
> The PMC Chair has no more authority over the project than anyone else.
> The PMC Chair absolutely does *not* have the power to dissolve the PMC. Only the Board
of Directors have that authority and they will only do that at the request of the PMC as a
whole (or when there is no active PMC to make such a request).
> Ross
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Purtell [] 
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 10:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: Incubator report sign-off
> There are honorary and practical reasons why a project may view the PMC Chair and the
project leader as one in the same. 
> Honorary: The community elevated one member as lead and assigned the Chair role out of
> Practical: The PMC Chair has the power to dissolve the PMC, and is an officer of the
Foundation. Nobody else on the project has such power nor indemnification. "Secretary" as
a term does not adequately encompass that.
>> On Dec 29, 2014, at 6:46 AM, Rich Bowen <> wrote:
>> On 12/23/2014 03:34 PM, sebb wrote:
>>>> Flex had three great mentors, but to expect them to be the PMC Chair 
>>>> on
>>>>> graduation would have been problematic.  They were great mentors 
>>>>> because they had lots of experience from their work on other Apache 
>>>>> projects, and thus didn’t have time to stay active on a new TLP, 
>>>>> plus they really weren’t users or developers of the technology, 
>>>>> just our coaches on the Apache Way, and thus wouldn’t be good Chair

>>>>> candidates as they weren’t as invested in the technology.  But they

>>>>> did stick around on at least the private@ lists and continue to do 
>>>>> so even 2 years after graduation where we consult them on occasion. 

>>>>> To require that a mentor be an active contributor limits the kinds 
>>>>> of technologies that can come to Apache to only those who can interest
someone with a lot of spare cycles.
>>>>> IMO, the mentors job is to teach, not to lead.
>>> The job of the PMC chair is almost entirely administrative.
>>> They are the link between the board and the PMC and their main role 
>>> is to ensure the board gets timely reports and to feed back comments 
>>> from the board.
>>> If a PMC is relying on the chair to drive it forward technically, 
>>> then I think something has gone wrong with the PMC.
>> Indeed. Big +1 on this.
>> There are some projects that I've been watching lately where the PMC chair is viewed
as the project lead, and that has a number of problems that go along with it. The PMC chair
is a secretary, whose job is to file the right paperwork. A *hugely* important role, but not
a technical lead role.
>> --
>> Rich Bowen - - @rbowen - 
>> @apachecon
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