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From "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)" <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject Re: Tez graduation [Was: Request for mentor assessment]
Date Sun, 22 Jun 2014 16:33:12 GMT
Hi Ted,

-----Original Message-----

From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunning@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
Date: Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:36 AM
To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Tez graduation [Was: Request for mentor assessment]

>
>Chris
>
>Regardless of whether it is an explicit requirement to have some specific
>level of diversity, there is a requirement that the group demonstrate
>community building.

I'm also sympathetic to this: you can see my thread here where originally
I didn't
think much had been going on until I explicitly checked the lists and went
through
the archives and saw ~7 IIRC PPMC members/committers added since entering
[1]. That's
community building regardless of what affiliation those new members came
from.

The other metrics and statistics (health of the mailing lists/open
discussions have
been increasing; releases have been made, etc.) are all there and outlined
in [1].

>  
>
>The page in question may be incorrect, but as it stands it does not
>appear that a diverse community has been built.

Having a diverse community is important and something that the project
should continue
to strive for. I agree at the end of day it's something that the project
needs to achieve
if they want to be resilient against any one company pulling out all of
its support/developers.
But it's something they need to *achieve* over the long run and it's not
an explicit requirement
for graduation as pointed out by Roy. Here's the relevant thread [2].

> 
>
>I am sympathetic to the encouragement of company participation, but I
>don't think that it serves apache to have projects that are effective
>stalking horses for what are effectively private communities.

I agree Ted - again, my perception of Tez recently was the same until I
took the time
to walk through the archives and look at the positive direction where a
number of the
exit criteria for the Incubator were being met. [1] outlines my own
research into
this. If you have specific qualms that you can point to data on, I'm all
ears. But
my own research into the area, along with Chris Douglas's original prompt
that he 
felt Tez was ready (and I trust ChrisD - yes it's a matter of trust) makes
me think
they are ready. There are ASF members on the committee including Arun and
ChrisD, so
that's a good sign that the intent is there for me and there are folks
watching over
the community to make sure it's growing in the ASF way.

> 
>
>My sensitivity on this point is largely informed by the efforts we have
>made to build the drill community beyond the core team funded by MapR. I
>felt at the beginning of that project and still feel strongly that it is
>critical for a project to develop into a truly open community. Building a
>real community is hard work and it doesn't happen by accident, especially
>in a high pressure competitive environment.  My own opinion is that this
>effort is not optional.

I applaud you on Drill - I have the same philosophy in my own projects.

> 
>
>If the problem is simply an out of date web page and a good level of
>diversity exists, that would be an excellent outcome. If the web page is,
>however, accurate then I do see this as a problem that needs to e
>addressed.  

See above as well as Roy's email and let me know what you think. I
appreciate and
value your opinion and we should figure out how to best address your
concerns.

Cheers,
Chris


[1] http://s.apache.org/tCN
[2] http://markmail.org/message/w56cmyri4osgcgud


>
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 22, 2014, at 8:31, "Mattmann, Chris A (3980)"
>><chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Guys,
>> 
>> I will dig up the thread from Roy on this, but company-based diversity
>>is
>> not a graduation
>> requirement. Basically the jist of it is that requiring such would
>> discourage companies
>> from specifically funding participation in a single open source project
>> for fear of these
>> types of constraints and we'd lose out on the contributions.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Date: Saturday, June 21, 2014 10:18 PM
>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: Tez graduation [Was: Request for mentor assessment]
>> 
>>> Looks like the page is not updated because the proposal mentions more
>>> diverse people [1]
>>> 
>>> [1] http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/TezProposal
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Ok, I've reached out to the Tez project and it seems that they are
>>>> wokring w/
>>>> Chris Mattmann's on the graduation process (per an email exchange
>>>> http://s.apache.org/K7g). What has caught my attention is the PPMC
>>>> composition
>>>> which is pretty much uniformly represented by a group with the same
>>>> affiliation. Given that this page
>>>> https://tez.incubator.apache.org/team-list.html
>>>> is up to date.
>>>> 
>>>> If I am reading
>>>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community
>>>> right, the PPMC and committers composition should be diversified. Is
>>>>it
>>>> a
>>>> concern for graduation from the IPMC standpoint of view?
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>>  Cos
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 06:54PM, Chris Douglas wrote:
>>>>> Tez is ready to graduate. Cos, if you can help us manage that
>>>>>process,
>>>>> it'd certainly be appreciated. -C
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <cos@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I share the sentiment with NPanday - doesn't seem like anything is
>>>>> happening
>>>>>> there really.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If it of an interest to the incubator, I will volunteer to help
>>>>> mentoring Tez.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cos
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 12:55AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) wrote:
>>>>>>> I think Tez needs some more help mentoring. I myself haven't
had
>>>>>>> as much time as possible so the more folks over there that can
>>>>>>> help mentor the better.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good job starting this thread, Roman.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Roman Shaposhnik <roman@shaposhnik.org>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org"
>>>>> <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, June 12, 2014 5:44 PM
>>>>>>> To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Request for mentor assessment
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Henry Saputra
>>>>> <henry.saputra@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Seems like NPanday should go to attic. One mentor I asked
did
>>>>> not even
>>>>>>>>> monitor it anymore
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've had exactly the same experience. My plan here is to
wait for
>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>> to chime in on this thread and for those mentors who are
MiA start
>>>>>>>> different threads asking for additional (replacement) mentors.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I really would like for things like retirement proposals
to come
>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> somebody who's spent time getting to know the community in
greater
>>>>>>>> details.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Roman.
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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