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From sebb <seb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [VOTE] Graduation of Apache Allura from the Incubator
Date Sun, 16 Mar 2014 10:46:30 GMT
On 16 March 2014 03:43, Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
> On 3/14/14 8:19 PM, sebb wrote:
>> On 14 March 2014 20:16, Cory Johns <johnsca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Ok, I think we've addressed all of the issues.  Namely:
>>>
>>> * The status page (http://incubator.staging.apache.org/projects/allura.html)
>>> has been updated, and now the correct canonical project web page (namely
>>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/), as well as having an improved
>>> project description, links to the docs, and updated news items
>>>
>>> * The aforementioned docs are now hosted at
>>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/docs/ (which is also linked to from the
>>> main project page at https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/)
>>>
>>> * The footer on https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/ has been fixed
>>> with the correct trademark and copyright information and links
>>>
>>> * All Apache Allura (incubating) references have been corrected on
>>> http://incubator.staging.apache.org/projects/allura.html,
>>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/, and
>>> https://sourceforge.net/projects/allura/
>>>
>>> Additionally, the unused page at http://incubator.apache.org/allura/ has
>>> been updated to automatically redirect to the main project page at
>>> https://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/, and its associated (unused)
>>> download page has been updated with a link to the releases repository, so
>>> that they are useful for people who may have bookmarked them previously,
>>> even though they are no longer linked to from anywhere.
>>>
>>> This should cover all of the concerns that have been raised thus far, save
>>> for the location of the issue tracker which, as previously mentioned, is a
>>> difficult undertaking that will be addressed in the future (and the status
>>> page indicates this).
>>
>> Well, there is still the issue of the download page.
>> There does not seem to be any way to find it from the new site.
>
> There's a download button in the middle of the page.

Not sure how I missed that before - I was expecting to find a top-level link.

However there needs to be a link to the KEYS file [1] otherwise users
cannot easily use the signature.

BTW, Allura 1.0.1 should now be removed from the dist area - only the
latest supported release(s) should remain on the main mirrors.

[1] http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/allura/KEYS

>>
>> Also there are some branding requirements that are missing from the site.
>>
>> See http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html
>>
>> In particular
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html#navigation
>
> I've added these links to our main navigation page.  I've also added the (tm) as
> required.
>
> Thanks for your feedback on all this.  Is there anything else we're missing for
> graduation?

Looks a lot better now, thanks!

>>
>>> With these changes, we are hopeful that we can proceed with and pass the
>>> graduation vote.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 8:18 AM, sebb <sebbaz@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the home page really is
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura
>>>>
>>>> then why does the status page
>>>>
>>>> [2] http://incubator.apache.org/projects/allura.html
>>>>
>>>> point to
>>>>
>>>> [3] http://incubator.apache.org/allura/ ?
>>>>
>>>> The host [1] is described on the status page [2] as being the Wiki,
>>>> which is normally separate from the project page.
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be very little on [3] that is not on [1] so it could
>>>> probably be dropped.
>>>>
>>>> However the Wiki [1] does not have the correct footer, it only says:
>>>>
>>>> "This project is powered by Allura."
>>>>
>>>> That should be Apache Allura.
>>>> And the pages also need the standard trademark attributions.
>>>> The site [3] does have the following:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Copyright (c) 2011 The Apache Software Foundation, Licensed under the
>>>> Apache License, Version 2.0.
>>>> Apache and the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache
>>>> Software Foundation.
>>>> <<
>>>>
>>>> However that fails to mention Apache Allura and Allura as being
>>>> trademarks of the ASF.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14 March 2014 04:32, Dave Brondsema <dave@brondsema.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 03/13/2014 10:00 PM, David Nalley wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 9:54 PM, David Nalley <david@gnsa.us>
wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rvs@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> After looking at it for some time, my optimistic outlook
>>>>>>>> on the project would be +0 vote at best.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the plus side, the community seems to be really active
>>>>>>>> and reasonably diverse. But if feels, like ASF has not yet
>>>>>>>> become a true home for the project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here's what I'm talking about: as a casual bystander who
>>>>>>>> was trying to view Allura as an ASF project -- I had difficult
>>>>>>>> time. First of all, I couldn't even get to the releases easily
>>>>>>>> enough: https://incubator.apache.org/allura/downloads.html
>>>>>>>> When I managed to get there the first thing that the README
>>>>>>>> instructed me to do is to go to https://forge-allura.apache.org/
>>>>>>>> What is that? How does it relate to the project?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fact, from the dev list it feels like there may be yet
another
>>>>>>>> canonical place for the Allura -- over at sourceforge:
>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-allura-dev/201402.mbox/%3C52F80CA5.8060209%40brondsema.net%3E
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not quite sure if penalizing the project with a failed
graduation
>>>>>>>> vote is the right thing to do, but the state of the outwards
facing
>>>>>>>> project assets doesn't inspire a feel of a strong ASF community
in me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my 2c worth of feedback.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The projects bug tracker also seems to be at sourceforge.net,
which
>>>>>>> means you need a sf.net account to participate in the project.
Based
>>>>>>> on a quick perusal most of the dev@ traffic seems to be bug tracker
-
>>>>>>> which means most of this is happening at SourceForge. I don't
know
>>>>>>> that this is really problematic - we do have projects using github
as
>>>>>>> the main portion of the contribution workflow, but it does give
me
>>>>>>> pause.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also see http://sf.net/p/allura - which bears a SF logo, and
which
>>>>>>> doesn't note the fact that the project is at the incubator until
1/2
>>>>>>> down the page. And nowhere on the page is it referred to as Apache
>>>>>>> Allura. From a standpoint of the project which is supposed to
be
>>>>>>> policing its brand, this leaves me a bit worried - this page
shows an
>>>>>>> update to that page recently; and appears at least to the outside
>>>>>>> world to be the nexus for the project and maintained by members
of the
>>>>>>> PPMC.  (first return on Google is the sourceforge link.) To be
clear
>>>>>>> other projects have listings at Sourceforge, so aside from the
brand
>>>>>>> and trademark policing that needs to happen, I am not sure the
>>>>>>> existence of the page is much to be concerned about.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's a notice on the page that reads: "Some project information
is
>>>>>>> still at SourceForge during this transition period." and indeed,
>>>>>>> there's http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ which looks surprisingly
>>>>>>> good when compared with http://incubator.apache.org/allura which
>>>>>>> doesn't have a working bug tracker link, and steps listed for
building
>>>>>>> Allura consists of 'TODO'. All of the content from the allure
source
>>>>>>> forge site appears to be in the Apache Allura git repo, so I
am
>>>>>>> curious why it isn't published at the ASF. And again, we have
projects
>>>>>>> who host documentation at ReadTheDocs, so I am not sure that
>>>>>>> documentation living elsewhere is an inherent problem, but it
gives me
>>>>>>> pause.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Individually I don't know that any of these are problematic;
but I am
>>>>>>> curious what the mentors take on it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And it's just dawned on me what's happening.
>>>>>> The project is using http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura as it's
>>>>>> home page instead of http://incubator.apache.org/allura which appears
>>>>>> to have all of the appropriate content (according to a google cache)
>>>>>> but is down right now. It's making more sense; is the intention to
>>>>>> make that the project home page? (e.g. allura.apache.org)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You got it!  (And bad timing that it was down for several hours today
-
>>>>> its back up now).
>>>>>
>>>>> Roman and sebb had similar comments to yours, so I'll respond in a
>>>>> single email.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are self-hosting at http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura so that
>>>>> is really our "home page".  It has a clear download link, and git browse
>>>>> link, and the text doesn't equate the project == the software.  But it
>>>>> is missing a link to http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.  (Note
>>>>> this domain forge-allura.a.o also has the future potential to be a
>>>>> project hosting platform for other interested Apache projects besides
>>>>> Allura itself)
>>>>>
>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/allura is not maintained as is obvious.
>>>>> That should just go away or be redirected to
>>>>> forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura  Similarly when we're a TLP,
>>>>> allura.apache.org can just redirect there.
>>>>>
>>>>> We should update http://sf.net/p/allura to remove the SF logo, and
>>>>> clearly identify it as Apache Allura and incubating, so it adheres with
>>>>> Apache branding guidelines.
>>>>>
>>>>> The docs at http://allura.sourceforge.net/docs/ could be moved to live
>>>>> at a URL like http://forge-allura.apache.org/p/allura/docs with a little
>>>>> work.  No reason not to.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tickets are the other item still on SourceForge.  We do want to move
>>>>> them over to the forge-allura.a.o host, but to be frank its going to
be
>>>>> quite a lot of work and we haven't gotten to it.  The SourceForge ticket
>>>>> tracker is configured to send ticket activity to the allura-dev list
so
>>>>> there is visibility and transparency to ticket activity.  We didn't
>>>>> think it'd be a graduation blocker to have tickets on a different host.
>>>>>  As has been mentioned, other projects have tickets elsewhere too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope this helps clarify the situation.  We will work on polishing up
>>>>> the remaining rough edges (perhaps everything except tickets location)
>>>>> in the next few days and then provide an update again on this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
>>>>> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
>>>>> http://www.splike.com : programming
>>>>>                <><
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
> http://www.brondsema.net : personal
> http://www.splike.com : programming
>               <><
>
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