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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: The podling initial committers issue
Date Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:53:30 GMT
Alex, you are constantly mixing up expectations of PMCs
and podlings. Plus, since the ASF did not watch how Usergrid
was handled when it was external, we (the ASF) has no idea
how "meritocratic" it was... in fact, and I'm sorry to say
this, the viciousness of all this leads me to wonder just
what counted as "merit".

Your definition of what is "better" does not align with
everyones, nor does it align with the experience of
other successful podlings. As you state, what works for
podling A may nor work for podling B (or be "better" for B),
and we should not force or coerce or "strongly imply"
one or the other. I suggested changing Dave's addition
to make it unbiased one way or another.

This whole thing started because I made the mistake of
assuming, as Champion, that the Usergrid community was more open
to taking advantage of the proposal phase to ramp up additional
interested developers and leverage their interest, energy
and talents.

On Sep 25, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Alex Karasulu <> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:24 PM, Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
>> On Sep 25, 2013, at 1:01 PM, Dave <> wrote:
>>> Here's what I think we should add:
>>> After a proposal is submitted to the incubator but before a vote is
>> called
>>> the proposing community may choose to add additional committers who ask
>> to
>>> be committers or may chose to defer adding new committers until the
>> podling
>>> is in the Incubator and can use the normal ways of ASF meritocracy,
>>> nominate new committers, etc.
>>> Do people agree with that text?
>> The "normal ways" stuff needs to be word-smithed. It's an
>> obvious "slam" against the way 90-95% of how other proposals
>> have been done and implies that somehow that's "wrong".
> There's no "slam" against podlings that have gone through an Incubator
> process that was less meritocratic. This is not a failure of podlings
> exposed to that process. It's just something we can make better, and more
> consistent with our standard meritocratic policies for PMCs.
>> If you delete everything after "is in the Incubator..." then
>> it's a little less biased or leading.
> I don't find this biased or leading. It's a genuine reference to mirror
> policies that are the norm for PMCs.
> Alex

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