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From Greg Trasuk <tras...@stratuscom.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Usergrid BaaS Stack for Apache Incubator
Date Wed, 25 Sep 2013 06:36:59 GMT

If a podling steadfastly refused to add any other committers, then I think its mentors would
try to explain why that's a bad thing, and if that behaviour continued, then the incubator
would vote against graduating it.

On 2013-09-25, at 2:12 AM, Deepal jayasinghe <deepalk@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apache is community over code, but here is more like code over community.
> 
> As a community we should be able to tolerate the conflicts of interest. 
> Once the project is incubated in Apache, the project belongs to Apache
> and direction and future of the project should be decided by the
> community, not just the people who bring the project.

It's a community that brings the project.  That community doesn't cease to exist just because
it is subsumed into Apache.  A TLP's community gets to decide who to accept as a new community
member, based on merit (with the board's oversight to make sure it isn't dominated by a single
commercial entity).  Why should an incubating project not have the same privilege?  In fact,
once a project is accepted for incubation, it does have the privilege of choosing its own
committers, the same as a TLP does (given the oversight of the IPMC).  We're talking about
a glitch in the system where an existing community can be destroyed by volunteering to come
to Apache, during the short period between proposal of a podling and its acceptance, leaving
a code dump.  That doesn't seem right.  If we want to encourage a community, then we have
to respect a community.  It's not that hard, just --ask-- to be a committer on a podling rather
than just editing the wiki.  Let the creator of the document edit it.

> I do not see that
> here. If this would have been a vote, I might -1.
> 
> Deepal
>> Are you guys wearing Apache hats or WS02 hats?  If you're wearing Apache hats, then
I'd expect a bit less fealty to your CEO's request and a little more "OK, I see your point,
but I'm really excited about the project, here's what I'd like to do on the project, do you
mind adding me as an initial committer?".  Granted that email doesn't convey tone-of-voice
very well, but the messages from WSO2 employees sound kind of snarky.
>> 
>> Now, on the general question of "piling-on" I have to agree with Roy.  The incubator
always encourages people to build a community, and then bring that community to Apache.  If
an incubating project's existing community is hugely diluted by Apache folks at the incubator
proposal stage, then it becomes a "code dump", which we try to discourage.  If we care about
"community over code", then surely we have to show some respect for the community that comes
to Apache.  Common courtesy suggest that you offer your help to that community, not impose
your help on it.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Greg.
>> 
>> On 2013-09-25, at 12:52 AM, Nirmal Fernando <nirmal070125@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> hmm.. it appears to me that though you pushed the project into ASF, your
>>> intentions were not pure and you don't want any competitor of Apigee to be
>>> joined to the project (by going on your words, it is quite natural to think
>>> so.) even if they showed their genuine interest on helping the project out,
>>> with their know-how on related areas.
>>> 
>>> As Sanjiva requested, I'm gonna hereby withdraw my humble request to be
>>> added as a committer.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Niranjan Karunanandham <
>>> niranjan.karu@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I was actually looking forward to contributing for this project where ever
>>>> possible but I think people have misunderstood our intentions. As requested
>>>> by my CEO, I would like to withdraw my committer request.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Dulitha Wijewantha <dulithaz@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> +1 for the Dave Fisher's example. I believe most of the people have
>>>>> misunderstood our intentions. We were offering to help the project to
>>>> grow
>>>>> and graduate faster. I am withdrawing my committer request as our CEO
>>>> asked
>>>>> too. But honestly speaking - if you guys are *scared* of the *community*
>>>>> and what the *community* is - I don't believe you shouldn't mention the
>>>>> below words in the proposal -
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Although we are aware of the strength of the Apache brand, we are
>>>>> primarily
>>>>> *
>>>>> *interested in the transforming power of the Apache Way to help guide*
>>>>> *Usergrid towards a more diversified and meritocratic community*
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In my humble opinion - the above line should not be a part of the
>>>> proposal
>>>>> since the Apache way has always been to gather a community around the
>>>>> proposal who have shown interest towards the idea.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 5:50 AM, Dave Fisher <dave2wave@comcast.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2013, at 3:19 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Alex Karasulu <
>>>> akarasulu@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ...So fill the bus with anybody who volunteers? That does
not sound
>>>>>>>> meritocratic....
>>>>>>> It's been like that for a while in the Incubator, people who
sign up
>>>>>>> as initial committers for a podling usually don't have to demonstrate
>>>>>>> any merit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When the time comes to graduate the podling, it's perfectly fine
to
>>>>>>> ask it to prune its list of committers and PMC members in order
to
>>>>>>> keep only people who have demonstrated their committment during
>>>>>>> incubation.
>>>>>> When OpenOffice.org was brought to the Incubator there was open
>>>>>> enrollment. There were over 70 Initial Committers. I had no experience
>>>>> with
>>>>>> OpenOffice. I did have an understanding of the ASF. I could help
and I
>>>>> did.
>>>>>> It was tough to have such a large list many were OpenOffice.org people
>>>>> who
>>>>>> never really adapted to the ASF. We had all these people on the PPMC.
>>>>> When
>>>>>> graduation time came we managed to reduce the PMC to 25. We left
the
>>>>>> Initial Committers connected. It hasn't really been a problem.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My point is that without the Initial Committer free for all I think
>>>> that
>>>>>> AOO would not be as successful as now.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Dulitha R. Wijewantha** Software Engineer*
>>>>> Tel: 94112793140 | Mobile: 94112793140
>>>>> dulithaz@gmail.com | http://dulithawijewantha.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> *Niranjan Karunanandham*
>>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>>> M: +94 777 749 661 <http:///>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Nirmal
>>> 
>>> C.S.Nirmal J. Fernando
>>> Senior Software Engineer,
>>> WSO2 Inc.
>>> 
>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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