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From Alex Karasulu <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Usergrid BaaS Stack for Apache Incubator
Date Tue, 24 Sep 2013 22:58:31 GMT
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <>wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:45 AM, Alex Karasulu <>
> wrote:
> >
> > However, when the CEO of a company adamantly volunteers to mentor a
> > perspective podling, and within 36 hours a few of his employees also
> > volunteer, then people start thinking things. And this is very natural.
> I'm
> > not saying they're founded or not founded. I'm saying, the probabilities
> > have a suggestive quality, hinting that there may be some back channel
> > coordination activities at play. Such activities are often considered not
> > very sincere.
> >
> Alex, yes we discussed inside WSO2 that being part of Usergrid would be a
> good thing for us because we plan to build a product that uses that
> codebase. As part of that decision we decided that some of our engineers
> will join the project at this stage. Is there *anything* wrong with that?
You might not want to be so aggressive about it especially if you're a
competitor. It might be a good idea to let the community acclimate to you
and your guys with some interaction so they see that you have good
intentions to collaborate. It's a bit more tactful and considerate no?

Next time you might want to wear the Apache Hat as well as the WSO2 Hat
since sometimes the Apache Hat might further your WSO2 goals instead of
freaking out perspective podlings that could have benefited your business.
But you were too quick to the draw and had to try to push in 2 employees as
mentors and 4 employees as committers:

1. Sanjiva Weerawarana — Founder, Chairman & CEO at WS02
2. Dulitha Wijewantha — Software Engineer at WSO2Mobile
3. Niranjan Karunanandham — Senior Software Engineer at WS02Mobile
4. Imesh Gunaratne — Technical Lead at WSO2
5. Nirmal Fernando — Senior Software Engineer at WSO2
6. Senaka Fernando — Senior Technical Lead at WSO2

That's a bit scary no? How about not sending an army on these guys? By all
means get involved but don't overwhelm and freak em out within the first 36
hours. This is a mob and has nothing to do with meritocracy. In the end,
when the Apache Way is followed, you wind up in the picture eventually as
you contribute. No one can stop your company's involvement. They can block
once or twice, but then they're the bad guys and get stopped in their
tracks. I'll be the first to defend you on that, regardless of my position
and whether I approve or disapprove of your ways.

Put yourself in their shoes for a second? It's a big leap of faith for some
projects to come and propose for incubation. You just scared the bejesus
out of these guys even if they wanted to work with you.

> Exactly what other things are you thinking of when you say "people start
> thinking things"?
I am not the one thinking that .. these are thoughts that would occur to
any podling in this situation:

"We're here to share and reduce the dependency on company A and this CEO is
jamming in 6 employees on day one. This might be good but what are the
intentions behind this? Is this an attempt to just sink this ship? Is this
just to earnestly collaborate? What's really going on?"

Are these natural thoughts if you put yourself in their shoes?

Plus on top of this you start to open back channels to communicate with
people at company A. This is weird stuff Sanjiva. How do you expect people
to react?

> If Usergrid becomes an ASF project we don't even need to contribute *AT
> ALL* - we can just take the stuff and use it and ship it and sell and make
> money and party on.

It's already ASLv2 so you can fork it now. I don't think this is a matter
of forking. I think this is a matter of positioning your projects and
making sure others don't stand. If I remember correctly we've had these
kinds of issues before with CXF and AXIS.

> Welcome to the ASF and to the Apache license.

I think many of us have been here for long enough to know how it works, but
we still appreciate your years of contribution to the foundation regardless.

> Wouldn't
> you really rather have us investing time and money into it too?
Of course that's the whole point to bringing it here. But think about how
you approached it for a second. Just go through the exercise of trying to
understand how a new podling would react. Can you do that for a second?

> And w.r.t. mentoring - I'm a member and I have a right to offer to mentor.

That's like saying but I love her and she needs to love me back. What if
they don't trust you? What if they think you have alterior motives?

You're a smart guy who can put spin on things. What if you decided to use
that power as a wolf in sheep's clothing?

> You could've replied and accepted or said no thanks for reason XYZ. You did
> neither.
Quite frankly I saw it on the way out of town. I wrote you privately when I
got connectivity. I'm staying put just to communicate with the Usergrid
folks and get their impressions of what's happening.

> Sanjiva.
> --
> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;
> email:; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 |
> +1
> 650 265 8311
> blog:
> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware

Best Regards,
-- Alex

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