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From Christian Grobmeier <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman
Date Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:28:54 GMT
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Alex Harui <> wrote:
> On 7/30/13 12:50 PM, "Christian Grobmeier" <> wrote:
> +1 from me too.  However...
>>If podlings don't know where to go we need to tell them they can ping
>>they trust in private AND they always can speak about problems in public
>>on general@. Discussing things in public is what we always (should) do.
> a newbie in Apache and a member of a recently graduated podling, I
> have to say that if our mentors had completely failed us so I couldn't go
> to them in private, I wouldn't know who else to ping in private because I
> didn't know anybody else in Apache. However, just about any issues I can
> think of would be able to be at least introduced on general@ without
> naming names and maybe some volunteer watching general@ would offer to
> help in private.

If you would tell general@ that I am not responding to your (podlings)
emails then it is like that and there is nothing wrong to speak about it in
I have been picking up some stuff mentioned on general@ from time to
time, mostly "review my release request".

>>That said, if you would like to start that experiment I don't object,
>>but I don't expect anything from it.
> Same here, and I don't have a binding vote anyway.  But I would prefer an
> experiment where instead of hiding behind a title like Ombud, (and if you
> must have a title, I like "Community Advocate" better), that the
> experiment just be that one or two people introduce themselves to each
> podling offering to be the sounding board and advocate if their mentors
> and shepherds get too busy.

The problem I have with Ombud is that they might go away too. We are working
on voluntary basis, there is no guarantee the Ombudsperson is staying or
responding to emails. We did not manage mentors stick with the projects,
now we are afraid shepherds are not doing their job. When two roles
fail, we have a third fallback?

Instead the Incubator PMC should see itself as a project. We need to realize
that being an IPMC member means we are all responsible for all podlings, in a
way. Like any other project. Easier said than done, of course.

> Even now, as a new TLP with few experienced Apache folks on it, it would
> be good to know who in Apache is willing to help out if we get stuck.  I
> figure everyone is busy enough as it is and that it has to be a big deal
> before asking on board@.  I guess members@ is a possibility, but if
> someone like JimJag "visited" our dev list and volunteered to help out new
> TLPs as well that would make Apache appear all that more friendly and
> welcoming.

This is a good point.

As you mentioned, I think board and members is a place to seek help.
Also I believe the IPMC should be there for asking questions which are naturally
there after graduation. The Incubator should prepare for being a TLD but I also
believe being a TLD is actually a bit different.

We should make sure newly created TLPs know they can still ping
general@ as a list
full of experienced Apache folks if they need some inspiration how to
run their project. A TLP can decide a lot of its own, but its always great to
access a resource of experience.


> -Alex
>>> -Bertrand
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