From general-return-41620-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Thu Jun 20 16:38:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B662CE16 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:38:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 61002 invoked by uid 500); 20 Jun 2013 16:38:33 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 60332 invoked by uid 500); 20 Jun 2013 16:38:32 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 60310 invoked by uid 99); 20 Jun 2013 16:38:32 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:38:32 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of aharui@adobe.com designates 64.18.1.33 as permitted sender) Received: from [64.18.1.33] (HELO exprod6og114.obsmtp.com) (64.18.1.33) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 16:38:27 +0000 Received: from outbound-smtp-2.corp.adobe.com ([193.104.215.16]) by exprod6ob114.postini.com ([64.18.5.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUcMv7aT4u1gAnzew28MS3EAHRvXVz4MM@postini.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:38:06 PDT Received: from inner-relay-2.corp.adobe.com (inner-relay-2.adobe.com [153.32.1.52]) by outbound-smtp-2.corp.adobe.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id r5KGc3AI019328 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:38:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nahub02.corp.adobe.com (nahub02.corp.adobe.com [10.8.189.98]) by inner-relay-2.corp.adobe.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id r5KGc2w7018920 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:38:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAMBX02.corp.adobe.com ([10.8.127.96]) by nahub02.corp.adobe.com ([10.8.189.98]) with mapi; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:38:01 -0700 From: Alex Harui To: "general@incubator.apache.org" Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 09:37:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman Thread-Topic: [PROPOSAL] Creation of the Incubator Ombudsman Thread-Index: Ac5t1IeBMfFQ73T/RrOW2eRfBoPPew== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.4.130416 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org FWIW, my concerns about an Ombudsman are: 1) I had no idea what an Ombudsman was. I'd heard of it, but never had to work with one before. I had to go look it up. If I had a complaint, I'm not sure I would know to look up that word to find the email address to complain to. 2) If you create a role like this, what happens when the folks who take it on run out of time and energy (see my comments about time in my 'exit interview' draft) and we can't find anybody else who wants to take that on for all of Apache? Roles like 'ombudsman' imply at least some sort of authority or the ability to get the authorities to act, but with all-volunteers, the person who is being complained about probably just ran out of time and there is no way to enforce that. We think of Apache as a community, and I'd prefer a community without a police station where the neighbors just have to work things out among themselves. An ombudsman implies a sort of anonymous tip line and some sort of resolution by enforcement. I'd rather go with what Jim referenced, that those of you who have the time and energy take on the role of community welcomers (you don't have to be an 'elder' which implies 'old'), visit a new podling and say "Hey, I live five houses down (meaning, I'm not on following your podling on email), lived in this neighborhood for many years, and you have great neighbors (meaning mentors), but if you ever need anything, come knock on my door day or night." Then no individual is committed to have to visit 'every' podling. There isn't some email address that you don't know who will answer. My 2 cents, -Alex On 6/20/13 5:01 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" wrote: >On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Alan Cabrera >wrote: >> ...I think that it would be a great idea to have an ASF wide ombudsman >>instead... > >We don't have that, and I don't think we need it - people should feel >free to contact people that they trust (officers, board members, ASF >members) privately if there's a need, and not having someone elected >in the ombudsman role means people are free to talk to whoever they >think will help. > >-Bertrand > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org