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From Alex Harui <>
Subject Re: Instead of a Bill how about a Booklet? (was Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights)
Date Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:25:13 GMT

On 6/21/13 7:12 AM, "Chip Childers" <> wrote:

>On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 08:22:00PM +0100, Upayavira wrote:
>> If, for whatever reason, they are unable or
>> unwilling to, you can ask on the incubator general list. If the optic is
>> too sensitive to discuss in public (eg a potential committer) you may
>> contact the incubator ombudsman at
>Shouldn't this be *first*, and then the
>ombudsman only when it's a "complaint" that doesn't seem to be addressed
>through normal list discussions?

Even private@ could be readable by the person you are complaining about,
plus this assumes there will be an ombudsman, which isn't clear will be
the case.

I would say it this way:

11) Expect to be frustrated (or annoyed or even angered) at least once by
the failure of people to act as you justifiably think they should based on
whatever documents or emails you've read, or the role they claim
responsibility for, or even based on common sense.  You might need one
more binding vote, or need consensus on what looks like a simple question
but ends up being debated for days when you need a ruling "yesterday".  If
you choose to lodge a complaint against an individual, remember that every
mailing list is archived, some of them publicly, and the individual you
are complaining about may someday see what you have written.  Before
complaining about an individual, find a mentor or ASF member and approach
them off-list, mainly as a sanity check to make sure your complaint is
justified in someone else's view, but also so that mentor or ASF member
can offer different ways to potentially resolve the problem.  It is
generally wise not to name names in your early emails as you may not be
able to predict any existing relationship between the person you are
writing to and are writing about.  A good way to choose an ASF member is
by getting a sense for who they are by their writings on general@incubator
or other ASF mailing lists.  In other words, if you are new to the
neighborhood, it is prudent to be careful complaining about one of your
neighbors to the other neighbors until you understand the relationships
between them.


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