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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Accept Stratos as an Apache Incubation Project
Date Thu, 13 Jun 2013 13:00:16 GMT
(Please note that this conversation is happening on general@, a publicly 
archived list, so there is a limit to what level of details of brand 
strategy I will engage in on this thread.)

To be brief:

- This issue should not gate a [VOTE] to begin incubation.

- Given both WSO2's history and the many Apache members involved in the 
project, I'm confident the right thing will end up happening.

- The requirement is that the branding for a podling must be formally 
donated to the ASF before it can graduate.  We are happy to sign 
agreements earlier or later; if we sign earlier we're happy to include 
language such that any trademark assignment will revert to the original 
owner if graduation fails for some reason.

- Unofficially (meaning: I've only spent 5 minutes reading this all so 
far) I do *not* believe it would be tenable to have a future Apache 
Stratos and a future WSO2 StratosLive.  Many thanks in advance to 
Sanjiva and company for being willing to change this!

- Shane

On 6/13/2013 6:21 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> On 13 June 2013 10:56, Noah Slater <> wrote:
>> Ross, thanks for bringing this up! I'm happy to be a part of this
>> experiment.
>> On 13 June 2013 09:13, Ross Gardler <> wrote:
>>> "Better" yes - "required" before we can vote - no. My reasoning is
>>> that WSO2 have already agreed they will use a different name if VP
>>> Branding requires it. In fact they won't have any choice since the
>>> proposal clearly indicates the Stratos trademark will be assigned to
>>> the ASF.
>> While owning the "Stratos" trademark would certainly put us in a position
>> of being able to ask WSO2 to stop using StratosLive. But there's no
>> guarantee that we would be successful.
> That's true, but there is no change in that risk even if we give WSO2
> an answer before the vote. What is more important (in my non-legal
> opinion) is a publicly archived statement from the WSO2 CEO stating
> they have no intention of abusing the Stratos mark that will be
> donated to the ASF. We already have that.
> It's only about the required order, not about the end game.
> Note, it is normal practice for pre-existing marks to be formally
> donated to the ASF during incubation, usually just before graduation.
> The former owner does not (usually) want to assign a mark that may
> become useless if the project does not graduate. Such graduation is
> not wholly under the control of the trademark owner.
>> 1. You need to be mindful of third-parties using your trademark in a
>> compound name.
> This is already encoded in the ASF trademarks policies - WSO2 have
> agreed to conform to those policies.
>> 2. You need to apply branding rules consistently.
> WSO2 have agreed to do so.
> Sanjiva - perhaps you can edit the proposal to this effect in order to
> help allay any fears. That is to include the statement you made
> earlier:
> "if StratosLive is too close to home we can certainly change it. Bit
> painful but not impossible."
> I don't want to hold up the vote for entry into the incubator on this
> issue. At the same time I don't want VP Branding to be in a position
> of having to come to a quick decision. We will have plenty of time
> during incubation to resolve everything to our satisfaction.
> Ultimately VP Branding will be able to object to graduation if the
> issue has not been adequately addressed during incubation.
>> We allowed Couchbase (and
>> others) to share our brand because they were seen as "friendly" to the
>> community.
> This is the root of why CouchDB has a problem today. I believe you a
> projecting that problem and its cause onto a different issue here.
> This is not about allowing WSO2 an exception to the existing policy.
> It is about giving WSO2, the Stratos project community (which includes
> you) and VP Branding time to work on a satisfactory solution *during*
> incubation rather than prior to a vote. In my opinion WSO2 have
> demonstrated they are willing to play by the rules.
> Ross

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