Did you read the topmatter disclaimer about the terminology?
Anyway no podling has a guaranteed "right" to a sufficient number
of mentors, that's why I didn't bother addressing Upayavira's
concern. That is a best-effort attempt based on volunteer availability
not something we should commit to in a "Bill of Rights".
----- Original Message -----
> From: Ross Gardler <rgardler@opendirective.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com>
> Cc:
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 7:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] PodlingBillOfRights
>
> Joe, this is (in general) great. I feel I could pick a few holes and
> make a few suggestions but they are mostly insignificant so I'll
> refrain from doing so.
>
> I do have one concern I want to air. Unfortunately I don't have a
> suggestion for improvement so am happy for you to ignore it, but maybe
> someone else has a bright idea.
>
> My concern is the use of the word "right". We are a volunteer
> organisation. Telling a podling they have a "right" to Foo and Bar
> might set the wrong tone. Upayavira appears to be thinking something
> similar (unless I'm misinterpreting him) when he asks:
>
> "I guess a question that it would be worth clarifying - what happens to a
> perfectly reasonable podling who's mentors resign/go awol, when the
> Incubator PMC cannot recruit replacements? Can we make any promises at
> that point?"
>
> Perhaps we can use a slightly softer word - perhaps I'm being too cautious.
>
> On 16 June 2013 15:16, Joe Schaefer <joe_schaefer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Since I realize that most of you can't be
>> bothered to look at the wiki page I created ;-),
>> I'll go ahead and post the current content
>> here for commentary. I hope the bulk of it
>> is non-controversial, though some of it may
>> not belong on the page...
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> First a clarification- as provisional constructs of the Incubator PMC,
> podlings have no official standing in the corporation known as The Apache
> Software Foundation. So technically, it is a farce to claim that podlings have
> any formal rights whatsoever. What we write about here are promises and
> covenants the Incubator PMC will make a good-faith effort to honor.
>>
>> 1. First, podlings have a right to expect active participation and
> guidance from their mentors. That minimally includes participation in release
> votes, discussions and votes on new personnel, and signing off on a
> podling's quarterly reports.
>>
>>
>> 2. Mentoring is done solely for the podling's benefit, and as such
> podlings have the right to fire mentors for any reason by a majority consensus
> vote on their private list. Just don't be denigrating about it, since
> mentors are always volunteers and not paid staff.
>>
>>
>> 3. Podlings who find themselves in need of additional mentors have the
> right to ask general@incubator for more mentors to volunteer.
>>
>>
>> 4. Podlings have the right to expect their quarterly reports to be
> read, reviewed, and critiqued by "shepherds" on the Incubator PMC, who
> are typically outside the podling's set of mentors.
>>
>>
>> 5. Podlings have the right to express private concerns about anything
> related to their incubation to the Incubator Ombudsman
> <ombudsman@incubator>, who will handle such communications as if they were
> sent anonymously.
>>
>>
>> 6. Podlings have the right to express their opinions concerning their
> incubation efforts post-graduation (or post-mortem) in the form of an anonymous
> survey.
>>
>>
>> 7. Podlings have the right to ignore commentary made on
> general@incubator in the middle of a VOTE thread, especially during releases.
> Reminder- release votes are a majority consensus vote, so seeing a few -1's
> occasionally is expected and often ignorable by the RM should they otherwise see
> a majority of at least 3 binding IPMC votes.
>>
>>
>> 8. Podling committers have the right to remain unsubscribed to
> general@incubator. Any relevant policy/process changes will be passed along by
> the podling's mentors.
>> ------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Comments and critiques welcome. I'd like to
>> move the ball forward to a ceremonial endorsement
>> VOTE on this over the course of the remainder
>> of June, so please be constructive!
>>
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>
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