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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: [META DISCUSS] talking about the overall state of this PMC
Date Wed, 08 May 2013 04:15:17 GMT
On a whole different direction, one way to "scale" is to shift from
Incubator-managed podlings to Board-managed. The podling would
effectively be a "TLP on probation". The Champion, Mentors, and Board
would be providing oversight.

I would posit that the Board is more capable of oversight than the
IPMC. The Directors have signed up to spend a lot of time -- more than
we expect of most volunteers. Not to mention the Board reviews 50+
reports every month. Another five won't kill the Board :-P

Thus, I might suggest that a proposed-podling may want to try the
above approach. (I dunno if the Board would agree, but somebody has to
formally ask!)


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Upayavira <> wrote:
> The problem that most podlings I've been involved with, whilst having
> six mentors, have ended up with just me playing any part. On paper, it
> looks like these podlings are in a great place, in fact, they only have
> a single active mentor.
> What is wanted is to know who is, and who isn't active. To spot
> problems. Benson's idea is to say that a simple 'I'm here' message would
> really help the incubator PMC. I'd agree with that. The question is,
> who's job is it to track all this. Should the PMC go look and do all the
> leg-work, or should projects and their mentors take some of the load?
> Really, the more responsibility is centralised, the less the incubator
> will scale. Looking for ways that mentors can show their involvement is
> a good thing. I guess that could be automated (grep through mail
> archives for mentor email addresses each month), but until that happens,
> I'd say it would be a good thing for mentors/champions to take some of
> that load off the incubator PMC. It need merely be a reply to a Marvin
> 'are you there' email.
> Upayavira
> On Tue, May 7, 2013, at 04:37 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Benson Margulies <>
>> wrote:
>> > There was a consensus to add the Champion role, and we haven't even
>> > tried it seriously, and now you propose to eliminate it.  That doesn't
>> > seem reasonable to me. I'd rather try to make it useful and then
>> > evaluate it. In other words, +1 to Bertrand.
>> >
>> > 'Holding mentors to their responsibility' as a completely generic
>> > concept is an idea that constantly fails to reach a consensus, due to
>> > the 'volunteer dilemma'.
>> >
>> > For others in this thread, I completely disagree that a monthly one
>> > line edit to the XML file or a one line email is an unreasonable
>> > burden.
>> Fair enough, disagree.
>> > Any mentor, let alone champion, for whom that is an
>> > unreasonable burden should not have signed up in the first place.
>> That's unfair.  I signed up to *mentor* not send silly heartbeat
>> checks that exist because other podling's mentors failed to live up to
>> their responsibility.  This feels beyond the minimal governance
>> necessary and a solution to the wrong problem.  It'd helpful to say
>> precisely what problem that this heartbeat is intended to solve, in
>> that way, we are afforded the opportunity to propose an alternative
>> solution - for example, by focusing on highlighting the problem
>> mentors/podlings.
>> Thanks,
>> --tim
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