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From Greg Stein <>
Subject Re: Anticipating my reign of terror -- new idea for December
Date Fri, 09 Nov 2012 03:54:53 GMT
Empirically, Model 1 did not work. That's been tried over the past ten years.

*shrug* ... whatever you want to do. I just wanted to speak up that
you appeared to be conflating the mentor and shepherd roles (as they
had been defined over the past couple months). If you *intend* to
combine them (Model 1), then fine.


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 6:52 AM, Benson Margulies <> wrote:
>> > 2. We need the shepherds to compensate for mentor shortages in addition
>> to
>> > discovering those.
>> I disagree.
>> In short, you are conflating mentors with IPMC Members. They serve
>> *very* different roles.
> Greg, let me start by writing that I am not in some hurry to turn shepherds
> into pie. If they turn out to be a part of the long-term landcape, no
> worries here. On the other hand, let me try to refine my idea of why they
> should wither away.
> Model 1: The IPMC members supervise the podlings. This is
> delegated/scaled/divided-and-conquered by the mentors, who are IPMC
> members. Mentors supervise in addition coaching and guiding. If they do
> this job correctly, we would not need shepherds. In support of this model,
> I'll point out that we require mentors to be IPMC members. Why do we do
> this, if mentoring is not part of the supervisory process?
> Model 2: The mentors are the good cops, exercising a light touch, so we
> need some other IPMC members to perform supervision. Thus, shepherds. Greg,
> if I'm messed up your logic here, please excuse me.
> When I serve on a non-I-PMC, I read every message on dev, user, and
> private, and I try to pay some attention to commits. We don't ask shepherds
> to do anything like that. I've always thought that we asked mentors to do
> that.
> So, it seems to me, if we prefer model (2), we not only need shepherds, we
> need to ask more of them. If we prefer model (1), we need to continue to
> work to achieve a situation where every podling has a sufficiency of
> active, supervising mentors -- and identifying people in the podlings who
> have earned that role is one way to do it.

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