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From Ted Dunning <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] Drill for the Apache Incubator
Date Mon, 06 Aug 2012 21:29:16 GMT
In fact, a big part of the motivation for proposing incubation before code is ready is exactly
to foster the discussions needed to form community. 

It is true that many projects that start without the fundamentals face challenges that more
mature projects face but that is really just a fact of life with young projects. 

My own experience includes a project that also started without an initial code drop.  Mahout
has gone on to have a vibrant welcoming community that has fostered the donation and development
of some very valuable software.  I expect Drill will be able to say the same thing before

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Jakob Homan <> wrote:

> Any reason the design docs can't be put up in place of where the
> source would normally go?
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Tomer Shiran <> wrote:
>> Marvin, thanks for commenting on the proposal! The initial committers have
>> been working on the design for several months, and will commit the design
>> once the project is approved, so we do not expect much friction during the
>> design phase. With that said, we certainly do want to engage others early
>> on, and our goal in incubating earlier is to encourage feedback and
>> contributions when it is still easy to change the APIs and extensibility
>> points. This is important because Drill (unlike, say, Google's Dremel) must
>> be really flexible in order to be relevant to a broad user base, allowing
>> multiple data sources, data formats and query languages. While many
>> projects enter incubation with a complete implementation, others don't, and
>> due to the nature of this project we think that in this case it is better
>> to start earlier.
>> Thanks,
>> Tomer
>> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:25 AM, Marvin Humphrey <>wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 3:12 PM, Ted Dunning <> wrote:
>>>> Initial Source
>>>> ==============
>>>> There is no initial source code. All source code will be developed within
>>>> the Apache Incubator.
>>> Coming in without any source code is going to pose a challenge to this
>>> podling.
>>>    The incubator filters projects on the basis of the likeliness of
>>> them becoming
>>>    successful meritocratic communities. The basic requirements for
>>> incubation
>>>    are:
>>>        * a working codebase -- over the years and after several failures,
>>> the
>>>          foundation came to understand that without an initial working
>>>          codebase, it is generally hard to bootstrap a community. This is
>>>          because merit is not well recognized by developers without a
>>> working
>>>          codebase. Also, the friction that is developed during the initial
>>>          design stage is likely to fragment the community.
>>> That last line in particular seems like something to watch out for.
>>> Marvin Humphrey
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