From general-return-36073-apmail-incubator-general-archive=incubator.apache.org@incubator.apache.org Tue Jun 5 15:22:48 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A1CFCE0B for ; Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:22:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 31593 invoked by uid 500); 5 Jun 2012 15:22:47 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-general-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 31450 invoked by uid 500); 5 Jun 2012 15:22:47 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: general@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 31441 invoked by uid 99); 5 Jun 2012 15:22:47 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 15:22:47 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of ralph.goers@dslextreme.com designates 209.85.213.47 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.213.47] (HELO mail-yw0-f47.google.com) (209.85.213.47) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 15:22:40 +0000 Received: by yhjj56 with SMTP id j56so3988254yhj.6 for ; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:22:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=from:mime-version:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:to :references:message-id:x-mailer:x-gm-message-state; bh=UYRXPT57xvgHOhFh75SnS+oH8fmSq9E4wGSxA+uvMtw=; b=Y3c5pX1V7MuqPuBsgRfoyo1qdBjzn1cM2JSNKHmOzxqRt+Hohf3mBg+yHOEDMyZa25 5iZU00hKeTJ2MakZPUrw/wwkJuG2vngQzHJIk3zFkucQa0Zxh0uGMCbmkONZflgrzFnh nHMxdhiFapcDDmPdTKF45POMUFyz0aGw2x5OW+oz1cVf1A7khEmOkly58qSACz3dBay8 eI1REu3HqxmprLyXZPIquXEq1fKUSX6j1CzMcrjQFM9Lscbl8k3fHhp+xdiLzkAfrJ4u h+n4GhiohSD/HJrhFzPbg+PlmlKDrvdTC2LEHeahdLTr8d75N7j9NS5ZqBTyhq49WFRS Sl4g== Received: by 10.182.212.4 with SMTP id ng4mr16752662obc.20.1338909739227; Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.92] (99-180-69-21.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net. [99.180.69.21]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id k7sm1423437obn.19.2012.06.05.08.22.16 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:22:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Ralph Goers Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AD69CBF0-D680-4ACC-8147-5C9209B88640" Subject: Re: Flume Graduation (was Re: June reports in two weeks) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 08:22:15 -0700 In-Reply-To: <699E83D6-1A4F-46F3-9B4D-B7B07411EAA8@hortonworks.com> To: general@incubator.apache.org References: <13513D2B-1E4F-49C3-8CC6-82E69A2F821C@dslextreme.com> <1B3C002D-65E0-4111-B56A-E2E6F0E44DBE@dslextreme.com> <69C6D245-59AE-436B-AA63-384A182E92E9@dslextreme.com> <782A3B5D-F333-42AE-BE43-458764E9D567@dslextreme.com> <3AB3F7C9-97D3-4A84-8285-8EB6AF221813@dslextreme.com> <699E83D6-1A4F-46F3-9B4D-B7B07411EAA8@hortonworks.com> Message-Id: <12BC0E77-25D7-4A25-A9CF-A615BB93CA0A@dslextreme.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQluCR0A5pNqcVjbAb5fP1YMc3kifu2VEjqoFrjlFYAABwizZgrk9JV6i1BP5QU0BxX95ahU X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --Apple-Mail=_AD69CBF0-D680-4ACC-8147-5C9209B88640 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The graduation requirements say=20 "The project is considered to have a diverse community when it is not = highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally = independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is = vital to the success of the project). Basically this means that when a = project mostly consists of contributors from one company, this is a sign = of not being diverse enough.". This doesn't specify a hard number. In fact, Roy responded to this = thread saying he doesn't believe there even is a diversity requirement = - "There is no diversity requirement for graduating from the incubator. In = many ways, incubation hinders community growth. The requirement is that = the project makes decisions as an Apache project, not in private, which = is harder to get used to doing if a lot of people share the same = office." So I am left a bit confused. If I go by the what the graduation page = says literally, then all the statistics that have been generated would = seem to show that Cloudera is vital to the success of the project. = Although Arvind is a bit of the driving force, I'm sure if something = terrible were to happen to him Cloudera would insure his energy was = replaced. However, if something terrible happened to Cloudera I suspect = we would have several Apache projects in trouble, not just Flume. While I clearly don't like some of the ways the project has chosen to = organize itself, all those decisions were done properly and in public. = Again, while I don't like that little discussion happens on the dev = list, it does happen in Jira issues and in the review board, all of = which is routed to the dev list, so again, most, if not all, of the = development is done in public. So my answer to the question is really that I am finding it hard to = reconcile whether we actually have or should have a diversity = requirement. =46rom what I've been told privately Flume would certainly = not be the first project to graduate from the incubator in a similar = situation.=20 The other thing I find interesting is that I am also the only = non-Cloudera mentor on the project. I find it a bit odd that while the = incubator has the requirement for graduation it doesn't have any such = requirement for a codling's mentors. That said, IMO every one of the = mentors on the project has been doing a good job. One other disclaimer. My employer is a customer of Cloudera specifically = for paid support for Flume, so I also have a vested interest in seeing = both the project and Cloudera succeed. However, with regards to Flume's = graduation, I haven't even discussed this issue with anyone in by = $dayjob. So again - if the basis we are to use is whether a single company or = entity is vital to a project then I don't believe Flume is quite there. = OTOH I am not completely necessary that that is vital for graduation, in = which case the section in the graduation requirements needs to be = changed. So at this point the best I can do is say I'm not really sure = how to vote. Ralph On Jun 5, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Alan Gates wrote: >=20 > On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: >=20 >> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Ralph Goers >> wrote: >>> Another way of looking at these same statistics: >>> Cloudera - 217 >>> Other - 16 >>>=20 >>> That means Cloudera is responsible for over 93% of the Jira issues. = It is >>> great that Cloudera is doing so much work but those stats hardly = prove >>> diversity. >>=20 >> I was surprised to see the IPMC Flume graduation VOTE today -- I = don't recall >> seeing another situation like it in the last couple years, where the = community >> graduation VOTE was contended. >>=20 >> I checked the Flume dev list archives and I don't see a message from = Ralph >> indicating that he thinks the latest measures address the concerns = that have >> been raised. >>=20 >=20 > Agreed. It's hard to vote for graduation for a podling when one of = the mentors feels strongly that the podling is not ready. >=20 > Alan. >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org >=20 --Apple-Mail=_AD69CBF0-D680-4ACC-8147-5C9209B88640--