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From Patrick Hunt <>
Subject Re: Flume Graduation (was Re: June reports in two weeks)
Date Tue, 05 Jun 2012 16:53:37 GMT
Isn't this why we vote. To come to a decision when consensus can't be
reached and allow people to move on.


On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Ralph Goers <> wrote:
> The graduation requirements say
> "The project is considered to have a diverse community when it is not highly dependent
on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and there is
no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project). Basically this means
that when a project mostly consists of contributors from one company, this is a sign of not
being diverse enough.".
> This doesn't specify a hard number. In fact, Roy responded to this thread saying he doesn't
believe there even is a diversity requirement  -
> "There is no diversity requirement for graduating from the incubator. In many ways, incubation
hinders community growth. The requirement is that the project makes decisions as an Apache
project, not in private, which is harder to get used to doing if a lot of people share the
same office."
> So I am left a bit confused. If I go by the what the graduation page says literally,
then all the statistics that have been generated would seem to show that Cloudera is vital
to the success of the project. Although Arvind is a bit of the driving force, I'm sure if
something terrible were to happen to him Cloudera would insure his energy was replaced. However,
if something terrible happened to Cloudera I suspect we would have several Apache projects
in trouble, not just Flume.
> While I clearly don't like some of the ways the project has chosen to organize itself,
all those decisions were done properly and in public. Again, while I don't like that little
discussion happens on the dev list, it does happen in Jira issues and in the review board,
all of which is routed to the dev list, so again, most, if not all, of the development is
done in public.
> So my answer to the question is really that I am finding it hard to reconcile whether
we actually have or should have a diversity requirement. From what I've been told privately
Flume would certainly not be the first project to graduate from the incubator in a similar
> The other thing I find interesting is that I am also the only non-Cloudera mentor on
the project. I find it a bit odd that while the incubator has the requirement for graduation
it doesn't have any such requirement for a codling's mentors.  That said, IMO every one of
the mentors on the project has been doing a good job.
> One other disclaimer. My employer is a customer of Cloudera specifically for paid support
for Flume, so I also have a vested interest in seeing both the project and Cloudera succeed.
 However, with regards to Flume's graduation, I haven't even discussed this issue with anyone
in by $dayjob.
> So again - if the basis we are to use is whether a single company or entity is vital
to a project then I don't believe Flume is quite there. OTOH I am not completely necessary
that that is vital for graduation, in which case the section in the graduation requirements
needs to be changed. So at this point the best I can do is say I'm not really sure how to
> Ralph
> On Jun 5, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Alan Gates wrote:
>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>>> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Ralph Goers
>>> <> wrote:
>>>> Another way of  looking at these same statistics:
>>>> Cloudera - 217
>>>> Other - 16
>>>> That means Cloudera is responsible for over 93% of the Jira issues.  It
>>>> great that Cloudera is doing so much work but those stats hardly prove
>>>> diversity.
>>> I was surprised to see the IPMC Flume graduation VOTE today -- I don't recall
>>> seeing another situation like it in the last couple years, where the community
>>> graduation VOTE was contended.
>>> I checked the Flume dev list archives and I don't see a message from Ralph
>>> indicating that he thinks the latest measures address the concerns that have
>>> been raised.
>> Agreed.  It's hard to vote for graduation for a podling when one of the mentors
feels strongly that the podling is not ready.
>> Alan.
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