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From Ralph Goers <>
Subject Re: Flume Graduation (was Re: June reports in two weeks)
Date Tue, 05 Jun 2012 15:22:15 GMT

The graduation requirements say 

"The project is considered to have a diverse community when it is not highly dependent on
any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and there is no
single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project). Basically this means
that when a project mostly consists of contributors from one company, this is a sign of not
being diverse enough.".

This doesn't specify a hard number. In fact, Roy responded to this thread saying he doesn't
believe there even is a diversity requirement  -

"There is no diversity requirement for graduating from the incubator. In many ways, incubation
hinders community growth. The requirement is that the project makes decisions as an Apache
project, not in private, which is harder to get used to doing if a lot of people share the
same office."

So I am left a bit confused. If I go by the what the graduation page says literally, then
all the statistics that have been generated would seem to show that Cloudera is vital to the
success of the project. Although Arvind is a bit of the driving force, I'm sure if something
terrible were to happen to him Cloudera would insure his energy was replaced. However, if
something terrible happened to Cloudera I suspect we would have several Apache projects in
trouble, not just Flume.

While I clearly don't like some of the ways the project has chosen to organize itself, all
those decisions were done properly and in public. Again, while I don't like that little discussion
happens on the dev list, it does happen in Jira issues and in the review board, all of which
is routed to the dev list, so again, most, if not all, of the development is done in public.

So my answer to the question is really that I am finding it hard to reconcile whether we actually
have or should have a diversity requirement. From what I've been told privately Flume would
certainly not be the first project to graduate from the incubator in a similar situation.

The other thing I find interesting is that I am also the only non-Cloudera mentor on the project.
I find it a bit odd that while the incubator has the requirement for graduation it doesn't
have any such requirement for a codling's mentors.  That said, IMO every one of the mentors
on the project has been doing a good job.

One other disclaimer. My employer is a customer of Cloudera specifically for paid support
for Flume, so I also have a vested interest in seeing both the project and Cloudera succeed.
 However, with regards to Flume's graduation, I haven't even discussed this issue with anyone
in by $dayjob.

So again - if the basis we are to use is whether a single company or entity is vital to a
project then I don't believe Flume is quite there. OTOH I am not completely necessary that
that is vital for graduation, in which case the section in the graduation requirements needs
to be changed. So at this point the best I can do is say I'm not really sure how to vote.


On Jun 5, 2012, at 6:49 AM, Alan Gates wrote:

> On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
>> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Ralph Goers
>> <> wrote:
>>> Another way of  looking at these same statistics:
>>> Cloudera - 217
>>> Other - 16
>>> That means Cloudera is responsible for over 93% of the Jira issues.  It is
>>> great that Cloudera is doing so much work but those stats hardly prove
>>> diversity.
>> I was surprised to see the IPMC Flume graduation VOTE today -- I don't recall
>> seeing another situation like it in the last couple years, where the community
>> graduation VOTE was contended.
>> I checked the Flume dev list archives and I don't see a message from Ralph
>> indicating that he thinks the latest measures address the concerns that have
>> been raised.
> Agreed.  It's hard to vote for graduation for a podling when one of the mentors feels
strongly that the podling is not ready.
> Alan.
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